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Another option is to steal the 5th Edition D&D idea of having all ability scores be tied to their own Saving Throws. I looked through the 5th Edition Basic Rules PDF (the one they gave out free) and couldn't figure out exactly what general categories they use each one for, but something like this would be reasonable:
Most Fortitude Saves: Go on Constitution, as traditional
Fortitude Saves against purely mechanical damage: Go on Strength
Reflex Saves: Go on Dexterity, as traditional
Most Will Saves: Go on Wisdom, as traditional
Will Saves against Illusions: Go on Intelligence
Will Saves against Domination (NOT Charm), Possession, and similar effects: Go on Charisma
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Will Saves against Domination (NOT Charm), Possession, and similar effects: Go on Charisma
For the record, this is not what Cha saves are used for in 5E. They're used for Possession, yes, but not Domination. Cha saves are for resisting extra-planar or Alignment based effects. Holy Word or Unholy Blight would involve Charisma Saves, for example.
You could certainly power that up/expand it in order to boost Charisma, but I'm just noting the inaccuracy in your description of 5E.
^I guess you have to have a real 5th Edition book to find this? (I searched through the free PDF and couldn't find it.)
Anyway, I was thinking of Charisma as Force of Personality, so what I listed seemed to make sense.
Anyhow, way back in the 2e days when Charisma did next to nothing a tough and gritty DM decided Charisma needed to play a bigger role, and he gave us the Luck Check, which is basically just a d20 roll adjusted by your Charisma modifier.
Charisma in the old days was actually really powerful as written, it's just that nobody actually ran it the right because it's kind of stupid and arbitrary. It determined both how many henchmen you could hire and how people reacted to you when they first met you. Random orcs and stuff could randomly love you at first sight with enough charisma. It was weird.
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^I guess you have to have a real 5th Edition book to find this? (I searched through the free PDF and couldn't find it.)
Yeah, probably. That's where I got it anyway.
Anyway, I was thinking of Charisma as Force of Personality, so what I listed seemed to make sense.
Oh, it could. I was just being pedantic about how it works in 5E.
Regarding the “Lingering” idea, it might be simpler to use the regular Aid Another rules for the bonuses. I find the idea of “insta-ghosts” influencing combat a little odd though. An alternate idea which might make having a positive Charisma very appealing to some players would be to allow the spirit to “linger” for a number of rounds equal to your Cha mod so that if the body is healed to above -Con during that time the PC actually survives rather than dying. A rule like this could also seem like an attack on low Cha PCs though.
@Aleron - The DC of a Luck Check is traditionally kind of arbitrary, but as a general guideline you might think about the rough percentage chance for something bad to happen (or something good not to happen) and divide that by 5 to get the DC of the Luck Check. For instance, if the adventure says there’s a 40% chance that birds craps on each PC it would be a DC 8 Luck Check to avoid getting crapped on. On the other hand, if a Roc is going to crap on a single PC as a touch attack (which might also count as a Trip and or Dirty Trick attempt) you’d have an Ugly Off to see who gets dumped on.
@mplindustries - Ye Olde 2e DM actually used henchmen and followers though he allowed for roleplay to affect that stuff quite a lot too. Anyhow, while the DM felt like people dumped Charisma too much and wanted to give it a boost I’ve rarely if ever seen somebody buy a higher Cha just because of Luck Checks. Being unlucky almost seems like a badge of honor in some ways.
If the goal is to make charisma less likely to be dumped by adding benefits, how about letting players pick extra class skills equal to their charisma bonus? It can represent their force of personality by following through interest in areas that are considered "not for them", plus people with strange talents and interests are usually more charismatic/memorable than average people.
Everyone gets the Amateur Swashbuckler feat, as a bonus feat, or an at will 0 level Spell if they have a Charisma of 11 or higher.
Now, having a better charisma has benefits in, and out, of combat.
I really like this. What do you think the implications would be if every stat had something like this?
There is always going to be a "less important" stat. It will just vary by class. If I am a fighter it will be intelligence or maybe dex, depending on the build.
Poor BAB casters tend to dump strength
Paladins know they may dump intelligence or dex.
The thing with charisma is that it is very useful or you don't care about it for many classes, just like strength. The handy haversack can handle strength if you dont plan to use it.
With dex it benefits your reflex save, and AC so even two points of it is useful.
Intelligence is similar to this also. People just don't dump it as much because they can dump charisma instead. If you want to max out skills you put points in it, but if not then you can dump it. Classes with 6+ ranks per level may have less of an incentive to care about it. Those with 2 ranks or maybe 4 may not think it is worth it.
Wisdom and constitution seem to be two stats that are good to have a +2 in if possible, even if you dont need to max them out. They help out the two saves mostly likely to end your character.
Yeah, I only know one guy who frequently "dumps Con", and even then that just means having a 10 Con. His motto as a player and especially a DM is , "It's no fun if you're not bleeding out!" He feels that Con is boring since it doesn't "do" anything. Maybe I'll make a point buy PC with 7 Con one day and see how it goes.
After some experience playing with a low Will save in a homebrew game where encounters are more likely to target weaknesses I don't think that anything could be worse than dumping Wisdom. If you die you can at least make a new PC. A low Will save is the gateway to endless loss of PC control and hours of "just sitting there".
If the goal is to make charisma less likely to be dumped by adding benefits, how about letting players pick extra class skills equal to their charisma bonus? It can represent their force of personality by following through interest in areas that are considered "not for them", plus people with strange talents and interests are usually more charismatic/memorable than average people.
This would be a feature for the class that is Unencumbered By The Thought Process.
As I see it, as far as the "Mental" stats go, there are two ways to go: either lump everything into one "Mind" stat, or start breaking things down into pieces. Obviously, having just one "Mind" stat is pretty linear and boring, so lets assume we want it in at least 2 pieces. I think there is definitely a "sweet-spot" in the balance though, where we trade accuracy for simplicity.
Given the topic at hand, since this is definitely still Pathfinder, we might as well stick with the 3 we already have to save confusion:
Intelligence - pretty broad, but to me this is your (character's) aptitude for problem solving and logic-based thinking. Mathematics. Causal relationships. Ability to learn. Analytical capacity.
Wisdom - definitely is a real thing, and shouldn't be swept aside so easily as some suggest. Self control, foresight, planning; emotional control, ability to understand one's place in the world as a whole; concept of "The Truth"; what really matters. All of these have to do with wisdom. Will saves reflect the ability to Just Say No (illusions especially).
Charisma - Strength of Self, Personality, Confidence; ability to Speak Out, to Act, to Lie - to convince other people you ARE someone. In a sense a lot of this should lead to benefits to certain types of Will saves too; charms, certain types of illusions...
... and this is where the concept of what Magic IS comes in. There is the concept of "I see the connections and can will and shape them as I please" ; a combination of Wisdom - seeing the Truth, the Magic - and Charisma, actually enforcing your vision onto the world by force of personality.
The homebrew world I have been perpetually been working on in my head has no INT spellcasting; magic is based on Wis and Cha alone.
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So to answer the OP: maybe choose a world where Cha casters are more prominent / Important? I also like the many versions of the Cha bonus adds Luck / rerolls sort of thing
-- This mostly turned into brain spew. Hope it helps with the ideas though!