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I discovered recently that some folks have a different reading of bleed damage than I do.
An example: a Bunyip attacks me with a bite, which is said to do "(1d8+1/19-20 plus bleed)". Under special attacks, the Bunyip has "bleed (1d6)".
A Bunyip bites me, but does not score a critical. Do I:
#1 Take 1d8+1 points of damage with the bite. Then, at the beginning of every turn, I roll 1d6 and take that much bleed damage, until I do something to remove the bleed condition, or
#2 Take 1d8+1 plus 1d6 points of damage with the bite. Then, at the beginning of every turn, I roll 1d6 and take that much bleed damage, until I do something to remove the bleed condition.
My reading has always been #1. Somebody suggested to me recently that it should be #2.
To throw another wrench into the works, the Bestiary isn't always consistent. From the same Bestiary (2), the Piscodemon has a claw attack that does "(2d6+7/18-20/x3 plus grab and 1d6 bleed)". Same question: if hit by a piscodaemon, I think we all agree that at the beginning of each one of your turns thereafter, you roll 1d6 and take that much bleed damage. However, at the moment the piscodaemon claws you, do you roll 2d6+7 or 3d6+7 for the amount of damage you take? Again, my reading is #1 above -- you only take 2d6+7 on the bite, and the bleed "damage" should better be called the bleed "condition", as it's only applied on your turn.
My reading is that the inconsistency between the bunyip and the piscodaemon entries is meaningless; both things are the same kind of bleed damage (really, applying the bleed condition with a given numerical value). However, I guess it's possible that it's supposed to mean something different when the amount of bleed is just listed as part of the damage rather than explicitly as a special attack... I would hope that this isn't the case, because I don't want the rules system to be that confusing in a detailed way, especially since it's not explicitly spelled out, but I suppose that it's possible.
From the Bestiary Universal Monster Rules:
The bleed damage happens at the start of the victim's turn before they act. It does not occur with the initial bite's damage roll.
I recommend ignoring the stat blocks, as they are often filled with mistakes, and inconsistent formatting can be misleading (as you've shown). Instead, read the general rules and understand how bleed is supposed to work.
I hope that helps. :)
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Yeah, the problem is that that entry from the Universal Monster Rules does not say that you don't take the damage on the initial attack... only that you do on your turn thereafter. Personally, I have always taken what the Universal Monster Rules say to indicate you only take it on your turn. However, people have read it the other way. Thus, clarification is needed.
The entry from the Universal Monster Rules also does not say you don't get struck by lightning on the initial attack, and there is no reason to assume you do. The same is true for the bleed damage.
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To Clarify, when the bleed condition is first inflicted, you roll the 1d6, record that number and the roll result is what is done each turn. If you take bleed damage again, it doesn't stack, the highest roll takes precedence.
for example, the character is hit with bleed damage, the roll is 4. On his turn, he takes 4 damage from bleed, then does his normal turn. He is hit again and the bleed damage roll is 3. The bleed condition takes the highest of the two rolls, so he is still at 4 bleed, which he takes again on his turn.
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I would rule that you roll every turn.
To Clarify, when the bleed condition is first inflicted, you roll the 1d6, record that number and the roll result is what is done each turn. If you take bleed damage again, it doesn't stack, the highest roll takes precedence.
No, that's not true. You take 1d6 points of bleed. You roll it every round to determine the bleed, it is not a single number you determine with a roll, it is a variable bleed.
If you get hit by a second 1d6 bleed effect, you roll 2d6 each round and take the higher amount. A third time? Roll 3d6 and take the highest, etc.
I agree with Zaister, there really isn't any need for further clarification.
You take 1d6 points of bleed. You roll it every round to determine the bleed, it is not a single number you determine with a roll, it is a variable bleed.
If you get hit by a second 1d6 bleed effect, you roll 2d6 each round and take the higher amount. A third time? Roll 3d6 and take the highest, etc.
That's certainly one possible interpretation, but to my knowledge there is nothing in the rules that supports it over other possible interpretations. Unlike the OP's question, which is pretty clear cut, how one is supposed to handle variable bleed rolls has been heavily debated.
Specific overrides general, so by an extremely strict RAW description if the statblock says scenario #2 happens, it happens. Now that I've been RAW enough to satisfy the purpose of the Rules Question forum: Ravingdork is almost certainly correct and the formatting/phrasing is misleading. Scenario #1 is the more reasonable one.
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I agree with Zaister's interpretation, but I disagree that it's impossible for a reasonable person to read it and come up with the opposite interpretation
I've seen multiple in forums and elsewhere who are confused about this. I stand by my position that it's not 100% clear, even though I also stand by my position that bleed damage happens only on the target's turn.
Since we use the crit cards we see a relatively large number of bleed effects, and they often pop up unexpectedly. It is sad to see that we've been doing bleed all wrong though. The bleed damage is a little more satisfying if it starts right away. Rolling damage once per bleed effect and applying the highest total also seems to create a little extra excitement since you can get stuck with a really bad wound which bleeds a lot.
The idea of rolling damage for multiple bleed effects round after round also sounds like it could get tiresome. I suspect that we might end up choosing to retain our misunderstanding of the bleed rules as house rules, but I'm glad to know the official rules so we at least have them as a baseline. I'm considered a pretty good authority on the rules by most of the folks I play with, but I'm always learning something new around here.