Grappling tiny creature in another character's square

[Morgause]

Last night we had a scenario where character #1 was being attacked by a jinkin gremlin. Since the creature is tiny and has 0 reach, they were both in the same square. Characters #2 & #3 were on either side of character #1 in a 5' passage.

Now, character #4 says he wants to move through the space occupied by character #2 and jump on the gremlin (to grapple it). This would leave both character #4 and character #1 in the same square. I presume that this is not a legal move?

What if there were only 2 characters in the battle (one in the same square as the gremlin). Would the character in the adjacent square be able to grapple the gremlin? If so, I would presume that the adjacent character would move the gremlin into his own square?

Thanks

[Aydin D'Ampfer]

Grappling does not put the participants into the same square. You grapple from adjacent squares.

[Nefreet]

The two medium-sized characters could not occupy the same squares, obviously, but if one chooses to grapple a tiny-sized (or smaller) opponent then you have 2 options: initiate the grapple while sharing a space with your target, or initiate the grapple while being adjacent.

[James Risner]

Aydin D'Ampfer wrote:

Grappling does not put the participants into the same square. You grapple from adjacent squares.

The OP is probably remembering 3.5 Grapple which did require you occupy the same space.

[Morgause]

James Risner wrote:

Aydin D'Ampfer wrote:

Grappling does not put the participants into the same square. You grapple from adjacent squares.

So even if grappling a tiny opponent, the monster and character remain in separate squares?

[Nefreet]

Read my post right above James's.

[Morgause]

Nefreet wrote:

Read my post right above James's.

Yes, I read it, but your post says to "initiate" a grapple from the same or an adjacent square. Does that mean that you continue to grapple a tiny creature from an adjacent square, or do you move it into your own square (analogous to a creature with 10' reach initiating a grapple: it would have to move the opponent into an adjacent square). Thanks.

[Nefreet]

When you maintain a grapple, you have the option to move your opponent.

If you didn't initiate the grapple in their square, you could move them to your square.

Likewise, if you did initiate the grapple in their square, you could move them outside of your square.

[Damanta]

Actually, grappling a tiny creature in your square moves that creature into an adjacent open space as per the grapple rules.

snippet of grapple rules wrote:

If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails).

[Nefreet]

"Adjacent" includes your own square, it's just that normally most grapplers cannot both fit into the same square.