I'm a new GM looking to play with new players. One of them likely intends to play a blasty character around the element of fire. I was reading up on the rules of Catching on Fire and saw that I have to roll a save for every single object or piece of equipment. I predict this will slow down the game tremendously. How do I solve that? Perhaps it goes a bit faster with items carried on person because they use the possessers save. But how about unattended objects? How do I even know what kind of saves objects have?
The only time Catching on Fire applies to spells is when a) the spell specifically says it does or b) the spell is non-instantaneous (like Wall of Fire).
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You could do what almost every GM I know does, and just ignore that part of the rulebook. Unless the characters whole plan was to destroy all the treasure for everybody else, it usually not worth it, because not only do you have to roll for all the items on their person, but then figure out if the fire should do half damage or not, because most items only take half damage from energy damage, then figure out each items HP and Hardness, apply hardness and figure out if the item is broken or destroyed. Then you have to track the HP of every item that gets damaged. Or you could just ignore that being on fire affects characters items and be a much happier GM, and frankly run a much better game.
I thought your possessions only took damage if you blew your save with a 1 ?
Attended (Held/Wielded etc.) Items: Unless the descriptive text for a spell (or attack) specifies otherwise, all items carried or worn by a creature are assumed to survive a magical attack. If a creature rolls a natural 1 on its saving throw against the effect, however, an exposed item is harmed (if the attack can harm objects). Refer to Table: Items Affected by Magical Attacks to determine order in which items are affected. Determine which four objects carried or worn by the creature are most likely to be affected and roll randomly among them. The randomly determined item must make a saving throw against the attack form and take whatever damage the attack dealt. If the selected item is not carried or worn and is not magical, it does not get a saving throw. It simply is dealt the appropriate damage.
Non-magical fire is a different kettle of fish.
Just fyi, I would reccomend you warn that player that he should have a non fire option for when fire resist/immunity comes into play as fire resistance is very common as you get higher in levels.
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Just fyi, I would reccomend you warn that player that he should have a non fire option for when fire resist/immunity comes into play as fire resistance is very common as you get higher in levels.
Seconded, if the player is playing a wizard, the admixture subschool is usually the preferred method of getting around elemental resistances/immunities.
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For objects being used by a creature, SlimGauge quotes the correct rule. You ignore any potential for object damage for attended objects unless either (A) they are explicitly targeted, such as with sunder or disintegrate; or (B) the attending creature rolls a 1 against a reflex save against the damage. In either case the object only catches on fire if the DM or specific effect says it does, otherwise it just takes the listed damage.
For objects that are not attended, no save or attack roll is involved. They are simply hit if they are in the area or explicitly targeted and deal full damage. As with attended objects, catching on fire only happens if the effect says it does or the DM fiats that it does. Most of the time damage to objects in the environment is simply described and everyone moves on without worrying too much about how accurate the damage description actually is.
The only time an extra roll should come into play is if the object is magical and not attended. In that case the item still gets a saving throw for half damage with a bonus equal to +2 + 1/3 its caster level. This is a rather unusual case, though, so it's not likely to come up much.
At the end of the day, if you find yourself having to roll a large number of d20s for any reason your first thought should be to fudge it so you can roll less. For example: Did they hit 15 of the same kind of creature with a fireball? Roll only 3 saves, one for each group of 5. Much faster and close enough to the same result to be fair. As a more extreme example: Perhaps half damage knocks them out anyway (to negatives, at least). In that case, don't roll at all! They're dead, Jim, it's time to move on.
For objects being used by a creature, SlimGauge quotes the correct rule. You ignore any potential for object damage for attended objects unless either (A) they are explicitly targeted, such as with sunder or disintegrate; or (B) the attending creature rolls a 1 against a reflex save against the damage. In either case the object only catches on fire if the DM or specific effect says it does, otherwise it just takes the listed damage.
For objects that are not attended, no save or attack roll is involved. They are simply hit if they are in the area or explicitly targeted and deal full damage. As with attended objects, catching on fire only happens if the effect says it does or the DM fiats that it does. Most of the time damage to objects in the environment is simply described and everyone moves on without worrying too much about how accurate the damage description actually is.
The only time an extra roll should come into play is if the object is magical and not attended. In that case the item still gets a saving throw for half damage with a bonus equal to +2 + 1/3 its caster level. This is a rather unusual case, though, so it's not likely to come up much.
At the end of the day, if you find yourself having to roll a large number of d20s for any reason your first thought should be to fudge it so you can roll less. For example: Did they hit 15 of the same kind of creature with a fireball? Roll only 3 saves, one for each group of 5. Much faster and close enough to the same result to be fair. As a more extreme example: Perhaps half damage knocks them out anyway (to negatives, at least). In that case, don't roll at all! They're dead, Jim, it's time to move on.
Not true. Catching fire has its own rules. If you fail the save and catch on fire then all of your stuff is at risk as long as you are on fire.
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Not true. Catching fire has its own rules. If you fail the save and catch on fire then all of your stuff is at risk as long as you are on fire.For objects being used by a creature, SlimGauge quotes the correct rule. You ignore any potential for object damage for attended objects unless either (A) they are explicitly targeted, such as with sunder or disintegrate; or (B) the attending creature rolls a 1 against a reflex save against the damage. In either case the object only catches on fire if the DM or specific effect says it does, otherwise it just takes the listed damage.
For objects that are not attended, no save or attack roll is involved. They are simply hit if they are in the area or explicitly targeted and deal full damage. As with attended objects, catching on fire only happens if the effect says it does or the DM fiats that it does. Most of the time damage to objects in the environment is simply described and everyone moves on without worrying too much about how accurate the damage description actually is.
The only time an extra roll should come into play is if the object is magical and not attended. In that case the item still gets a saving throw for half damage with a bonus equal to +2 + 1/3 its caster level. This is a rather unusual case, though, so it's not likely to come up much.
At the end of the day, if you find yourself having to roll a large number of d20s for any reason your first thought should be to fudge it so you can roll less. For example: Did they hit 15 of the same kind of creature with a fireball? Roll only 3 saves, one for each group of 5. Much faster and close enough to the same result to be fair. As a more extreme example: Perhaps half damage knocks them out anyway (to negatives, at least). In that case, don't roll at all! They're dead, Jim, it's time to move on.
That only applies to non-instantaneous effects. So it's irrelevant for the vast majority of fire effects that would be used. I guess it matters for Wall of Fire, but that doesn't seem to come up much. Also, the way I read it you only have to worry about (attended) gear being on fire if you nat-1 the save to avoid catching on fire or to put it out.
So sure, it could come up, but for the amount of effect it causes most would rather just not bother unless it's somehow plot relevant.
Let's just assume the player uses Flaming Sphere and Burning Gaze a lot. These spells specifically state that objects and creatures catch on fire. Perhaps I could simply limit the effect to clothing, hair and flammable objects in the environment. It would make sense though that if an evil wizards or alchemists backpack is on fire his AlchemistsFire would basically explode on the spot. Perhaps I should only roll saves for such relevant objects and only in a secondary round of being on fire.
As others have said, I wouldn't bother with it.
The fire is instantaneous unless the PERSON catches on fire. If he doesn't catch on fire, his stuff is just fine. If he does catch on fire, he's going to put it out almost immediately. Maybe a round or two. Or he'll likely die very soon and his enemies will extinguish the fire so they can loot him.
Metal and glass items are fine. Leather items get scorched. Exposed paper items could be ruined but those in solid scroll tubes are fine. Non-magical clothing can burn (naked characters FTW). Magical clothing is harder to destroy so I would just not bother damaging it - make it scorch a little like leather items. Wooden items are probably just fine unless they're very thin, but axe handles and shields and stuff like that will be undamaged, possibly minor scorches.
Oil or alchemical fire won't explode unless it's exposed to the fire. Those liquids IN their bottles when the fire is OUTSIDE the bottles are probably just fine.
All these bets are off if the fire lasts long enough, but since everyone puts it out or dies within a round or two, no more than a few rounds, it shouldn't really do a lot of damage. If for some reason the guy just burns for a few minutes, that will destroy cloth, paper, and maybe wood. It might even shatter glass vials filled with liquid (most liquids expand when heated) which could cause those oils and alchemist fires to burst and burn along with the rest of the stuff. Potions and scrolls will probably be ruined even inside their bottles and scroll tubes. Metal would still be fine unless that fire was HOT.
Doing it this way takes all the rolling out of it.
And the first time you tell a mage that he finds a bunch of scroll tubes with fragments of scorched parchments - on them he can see bits and pieces of arcane writing so he knows they were scrolls - that will be the last time he deliberately burns his flammable enemies.
And if he doesn't get the hint, burn up a few magical cloaks, magical leather armors, magical clothing, etc., and the rest of the group will tell this guy to knock it off before they all go broke.
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Catching on Fire
Characters exposed to burning oil, bonfires, and non-instantaneous magic fires might find their clothes, hair, or equipment on fire. Spells with an instantaneous duration don't normally set a character on fire, since the heat and flame from these come and go in a flash.
Characters at risk of catching fire are allowed a DC 15 Reflex save to avoid this fate. If a character's clothes or hair catch fire, he takes 1d6 points of damage immediately. In each subsequent round, the burning character must make another Reflex saving throw. Failure means he takes another 1d6 points of damage that round. Success means that the fire has gone out—that is, once he succeeds on his saving throw, he's no longer on fire.
A character on fire may automatically extinguish the flames by jumping into enough water to douse himself. If no body of water is at hand, rolling on the ground or smothering the fire with cloaks or the like permits the character another save with a +4 bonus.
Those whose clothes or equipment catch fire must make DC 15 Reflex saves for each item. Flammable items that fail take the same amount of damage as the character.
1d6 fire (energy) damage. So the damage is halved against items that aren't vulnerable to fire. Most ancient clothes weren't vulnerable to it, it is the modern synthetic fibers that are vulnerable. Leather too isn't vulnerable.
So, in sequence:
- the character get a DC 15 Ref save. If he make it you don't need to make any other save.
If he fail:
- "scenic equipment" like his clothes, mundane gear etc. is not relevant, so not worth checking. if the character burn for a couple of rounds you can assume they are destroyed.
- any metal or stone item is invulnerable to this kind of damage. 1d6/2 vs hardness 8 or 10, so there is no need to check.
- wood items too are invulnerable. Solid pieces of wood (not splinters) aren't vulnerable to fire. That is why you need kindling to start a fire. So hardness 5 vs 1d6/2.
Items worth checking:
- leather containers (yes, a couple of failed rolls can be very bad for the wizard spell component pouch);
- exposed paper (if it is in a container you need to destroy the container first), important note a book isn't exposed paper nor vulnerable. Most books in Golarion setting will be bound in leather and even a softcover paper book will have a few hp;
- ropes (hardness 0, 2 hp);
- exposed glass containers (hardness 1);
- magical leather and cloth items.
To speed it up the check:
- for leather: first roll the d6. Unless it is a 6 don't bother with the save. You round down and a result of 1-5 mean 1 or 2 point of damage. Hardness wills top it.
- glass: first roll the d6. It is damaged only with a result of 4+.
At that point the number of objects you need to check become manageable.
Thanks for all the replies and good advice!