hey all,
our party leader(6th level aasimar paladin of iomedae) built into his back story that his mother was assaulted by a demon resulting in an unholy stain within his blood. The flavor of this backstory choice has been fun to see play out. He obviously was strict with his paladin code, and grey area moral dilemmas resulted in minor cosmetic changes like little horn buds sprouting from his head and claws forming on his hand. All changes were comical and fun to roleplay with the other pcs and a handful of concerned npcs. This paladin now just went into a blood frenzy after watching his mentor killed in front of him by the BBEG. He REALLY sold it......smashing the bad guy's skull on the ground until it was ground hamburger, smearing his blood all over himself, beheading what was left of his melon and swinging it wildly at us telling us to back away. Two party members grappled and subdued him....AND then he grew goat legs and ram horns.
Out of game I asked the gm how this new situation will probably progress. He said that since he is refusing all aid from the church/paladin order to correct the problem(atonement/consecration)he would now lose his aasimar traits and now have the fiendish template applied to his character. There has been no indication...yet, that he has lost his paladin powers.
What advice could we give him to help him deal with his new character development. The role playing element is priceless. Other players had suggested he goes straight fighter until he comes to terms with his tainted blood. I suggested he embrace his nature and take levels in bloodrager with the abyssal bloodline or even crossblooded with celestial.
Any/all advice would be greatly appreciated
ty all
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It's definitely interesting, and I don't have any advice on how to proceed. That being said, to me it seems like your GM is taking the backwards approach to this. And by that I mean the PC should lose his paladin powers (for obvious reasons) and there's no reason to strip him of his racial traits..because it's his race. Also, applying templates to PCs was never intended for pathfinder. If the gm is set on him losing his aasimar abilities, I'd just say he's now a tiefling and skip the template (though that's still something I wouldn't do).
It's definitely interesting, and I don't have any advice on how to proceed. That being said, to me it seems like your GM is taking the backwards approach to this. And by that I mean the PC should lose his paladin powers (for obvious reasons) and there's no reason to strip him of his racial traits..because it's his race. Also, applying templates to PCs was never intended for pathfinder. If the gm is set on him losing his aasimar abilities, I'd just say he's now a tiefling and skip the template (though that's still something I wouldn't do).
yeah, i did ask the gm if he's just turning into a tiefling and he said nope. The decision to apply the fiendish template was a gut-check on the fly move by the gm. I think the gm was surprised when my paladin friend refused the aid and free help of the church and paladin order. Now, since the pc is not going to fix his new devil problem....we are at this crossroads.
If you still have your paladin powers....how bad could it be?
hey all,
our party leader(6th level aasimar paladin of iomedae) built into his back story that his mother was assaulted by a demon resulting in an unholy stain within his blood. The flavor of this backstory choice has been fun to see play out. He obviously was strict with his paladin code, and grey area moral dilemmas resulted in minor cosmetic changes like little horn buds sprouting from his head and claws forming on his hand. All changes were comical and fun to roleplay with the other pcs and a handful of concerned npcs. This paladin now just went into a blood frenzy after watching his mentor killed in front of him by the BBEG. He REALLY sold it......smashing the bad guy's skull on the ground until it was ground hamburger, smearing his blood all over himself, beheading what was left of his melon and swinging it wildly at us telling us to back away. Two party members grappled and subdued him....AND then he grew goat legs and ram horns.Out of game I asked the gm how this new situation will probably progress. He said that since he is refusing all aid from the church/paladin order to correct the problem(atonement/consecration)he would now lose his aasimar traits and now have the fiendish template applied to his character. There has been no indication...yet, that he has lost his paladin powers.
What advice could we give him to help him deal with his new character development. The role playing element is priceless. Other players had suggested he goes straight fighter until he comes to terms with his tainted blood. I suggested he embrace his nature and take levels in bloodrager with the abyssal bloodline or even crossblooded with celestial.
Any/all advice would be greatly appreciated
ty all
With the bolded parts showing extreme levels of Chaos, as well as touches of Evil due to how he handled slaying the BBEG (he desecrated the enemy's body, as well as his own with the blood of Evil), that would call for an alignment change of either axis (probably to Neutral Good, or Lawful Neutral, or True Neutral), meaning he should've lost his Paladin powers right then and there.
To be quite honest, if it continues much further, I anticipate this "Paladin" will become an "Anti-Paladin," and his demonic appearance would be side-effects of the Abyssal Eldritch Heritage feat chains.
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It's definitely interesting, and I don't have any advice on how to proceed. That being said, to me it seems like your GM is taking the backwards approach to this. And by that I mean the PC should lose his paladin powers (for obvious reasons) and there's no reason to strip him of his racial traits..because it's his race. Also, applying templates to PCs was never intended for pathfinder. If the gm is set on him losing his aasimar abilities, I'd just say he's now a tiefling and skip the template (though that's still something I wouldn't do).yeah, i did ask the gm if he's just turning into a tiefling and he said nope. The decision to apply the fiendish template was a gut-check on the fly move by the gm. I think the gm was surprised when my paladin friend refused the aid and free help of the church and paladin order. Now, since the pc is not going to fix his new devil problem....we are at this crossroads.
If you still have your paladin powers....how bad could it be?
He shouldn't have his paladin powers. His god will look down and see that he has fallen into his fiendish heritage and say, "Nope, you don't have my blessing anymore". Now he has full bab, feats, and that's it. But he also took away his racial abilities which doesn't make sense.
if....And it's a big IF ...the gm applies the fiendish template and does not take away his paladin powers....my friend should____________?
i agree with above posters who think its a little backwards how it was ruled. If it stands as is....do nothing, explore bloodrager, go anti-paladin?
we find that when the gm makes on the fly calls like this, it makes us react equally unconventionally. I was surprised as well when my friend refused the help of the church. It is his choice to "Let's see where this thing goes". so, i thought we could give him some interesting options to go along with the gm ruling of fiendish.
or......get fixed by the priests lol
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I think bloodrager would go well. Continuing as a Paladin is fine too. Continuing his paladin studies could represent the character trying harder to overcome his fiendish blood.
The character could have chosen to keep the goat legs and horns as a constant reminder to not lose control again. That would also be perfectly in keeping with a stick-in-the-mud self-flagellating martyr of Iomadae.
Since the GM already ruled there was no "fall", then no need to worry. Gorum would probably have not cared at all, and the GM thinks Iomadae would not care enough to remove someone's powers. Which is fine.
The church itself might ostracize the character.
In the end it's between the player and GM what doe they want to do, or what does he want to do? If they want to play it up, make the character start having Will saves to avoid further chaotic behavior, then that's something they can go for. Or have an adventure centered around a ceremony to remove his fiendish blood (since Atonement is ruled out - nothing to atone for). But maybe that never happens and it's just this is what the guy looks like from now on.
I think bloodrager would go well. Continuing as a Paladin is fine too. Continuing his paladin studies could represent the character trying harder to overcome his fiendish blood.
The character could have chosen to keep the goat legs and horns as a constant reminder to not lose control again. That would also be perfectly in keeping with a stick-in-the-mud self-flagellating martyr of Iomadae.
Since the GM already ruled there was no "fall", then no need to worry. Gorum would probably have not cared at all, and the GM thinks Iomadae would not care enough to remove someone's powers. Which is fine.
The church itself might ostracize the character.
In the end it's between the player and GM what doe they want to do, or what does he want to do? If they want to play it up, make the character start having Will saves to avoid further chaotic behavior, then that's something they can go for. Or have an adventure centered around a ceremony to remove his fiendish blood (since Atonement is ruled out - nothing to atone for). But maybe that never happens and it's just this is what the guy looks like from now on.
very well said....ty
wondering if he can "explore" his abyssal dark side and still be a paladin of Iomedae? the oath of vengeance seems really fitting. the mix of angelic and fiendish blood makes for a really interesting character. i'm wondering if the gm is encouraging roleplaying over rules by letting him keep his paladin powers.
Since tieflings can become paladins, there's not really any reason he couldn't remain a paladin. It's all about what he does and how he acts, not what he's turning into.
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I agree with Bran that it sounds like great roleplay and it's a fine idea for the GM to want to turn that into something other than a fall.
But what exactly is the player roleplaying at this point? Refusing the church's help atoneing indicates that the character doesn't regret his actions, and that's more significant than simply having a fiendish influence.
If he has realized that he can use his anger and even his fiendish heritage to serve the cause of good, then a change of patron seems in order. Ragathiel is very much about righteous anger, and as the son of the archdevil Dispater he's also an inspiration for someone with fiendish heritage seeking to ensure their anger stays righteous.
However if the character doesn't regret his actions because he no longer cares about his commitment to maintain the highest standards of moral behavior, he's abandoned his calling as a paladin and should retrain to bloodrager. It is a thematically appropriate representation of the character's drastic change in outlook and not a mechanical punishment for the player. Bloodrager should play pretty similarly in terms of party role and combat style, albeit with little or no healing ability (spelleater gets some self-healing).
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Since tieflings can become paladins, there's not really any reason he couldn't remain a paladin. It's all about what he does and how he acts, not what he's turning into.
Yes, tieflings can be paladins and there's nothing wrong with that. However, if a tiefling that was a paladin started mutilating his enemies and bathing in their blood they, too, should lose their power as that is neither lawful nor good.
"He REALLY sold it......smashing the bad guy's skull on the ground until it was ground hamburger, smearing his blood all over himself, beheading what was left of his melon and swinging it wildly at us telling us to back away"
I'd call this a loss of control more than anything else. Presuming the bad guy had not surrendered, it was a fight to the death, and these can get pretty brutal. The beheading and the rest was a loss of control and possibly a chaotic act, but barring a history of previous offenses I am not sure this merits an immediate fall. It could also be a roleplay of a momentary loss of control to darker powers, with the "telling us to back away" being an attempt by the paladin self to protect his/her associates . I imagine the patron deity has the right of choice in this moment. Given the circumstances, an option to retrain the character is in order (I would actually consider pushing for a warpriest or an inquisitor as well).
The racial change thing, though... unless it was previously discussed or at least mentioned to the player, this can be a bit too intrusive.
his back story that his mother was assaulted by a demon resulting in an unholy stain within his blood.
by assaulted do you mean raped? and if so wouldn't he have been a tiefling instead of an aasamir in the first place. if it doesn't mean rape, then... that's weird(a tiny bit of fiendish influence overwhelming direct holy lineage).
his back story that his mother was assaulted by a demon resulting in an unholy stain within his blood.by assaulted do you mean raped? and if so wouldn't he have been a tiefling instead of an aasamir in the first place. if it doesn't mean rape, then... that's weird(a tiny bit of fiendish influence overwhelming direct holy lineage).
yes on back story......i believe his aasimar mother was knocked up by what she remembers as an angel, but as time has gone by it seems it wasn't an angel at all...
his character has had minor physical changes as he progressed to 6th level. most of the time it was based on moral dilemmas that the gm wanted to warn but not punish the pc for. tiny horn buds, one sharpened eye tooth, eyes red for 24 hours, furry ankles, claws on one hand, tail nub on backside. all were temporary cosmetic rp flavored drawbacks and it also was a fair warning that his character was skating the line between good and evil.