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I'm trying to wrap my mind around this. Bloodragers get full caster level (I got that), so how does this affect their use of magic items? Can a first level bloodrager use a wand if the spell is on his spell list; or does he have to wait until he can cast spells at 4th level? In effect, is a 1st level bloodrager a CL1 caster with no spells? Or does a bloodrager go from CL0 to CL4 when he makes 4th level?
I think it is CL0 to CL4 at 4th level, but I want to make sure since I'm building a bloodrager for Society play. So I need a by RAW answer please.
Bloodragers can use spell trigger items (i.e. wands) at level one. You have to wait until level 4 to use spell completion items (i.e. scrolls). So yes, a bloodrager goes from having no caster level at level 3 to a caster level of 4 at level 4.
Yes, the Bloodrager can use wands. The way I read the rules they can also use scrolls.
Rangers and Paladins (who have no caster level until 4th level) can use wand but not scrolls of spells on their spell list. The reason they can use wands is a specific rule (CRB pg. 458) allowing it.
Scrolls use different rules, and if your caster level is less than that of the scroll there is a chance of mishap.
To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.
• The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine).
Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his class.)
• The user must have the spell on her class list.
• The user must have the requisite ability score.
For something like a scroll of Magic Weapon, a 1st level Bloodrager only needs a Charisma of 11 and an arcane version of that spell on a scroll.
The trick is that there may be a chance of mishap. The rules are if the caster level of the scroll is greater than the person's caster level there is a chance of mishap.
Given the way the rules are written, there is no chance of mishap if the caster level of the person is greater or equal to the caster level of the scroll. It doesn't matter if they are normally unable to cast the spell (which can happen in other cases as well), it is just a check of caster level.
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Hmmm, has it been mentioned by any of the devs whether the omission of the -3 caster level for bloodragers was intentional? Or that it means that the caster level for the Bloodrager is it's class level. Because without a line stating what the caster level actually is for the Bloodrager, most of the GMs I know consider it to be the same as Paladins or Rangers. Which is why you see Bloodragers with the Magical Knack trait.
Hmmm, has it been mentioned by any of the devs whether the omission of the -3 caster level for bloodragers was intentional? Or that it means that the caster level for the Bloodrager is it's class level. Because without a line stating what the caster level actually is for the Bloodrager, most of the GMs I know consider it to be the same as Paladins or Rangers. Which is why you see Bloodragers with the Magical Knack trait.
They likely wasted a trait.
Here is a quote from a designer mentioning that it is intentional that they get full caster level.
Hmmm, has it been mentioned by any of the devs whether the omission of the -3 caster level for bloodragers was intentional? Or that it means that the caster level for the Bloodrager is it's class level. Because without a line stating what the caster level actually is for the Bloodrager, most of the GMs I know consider it to be the same as Paladins or Rangers. Which is why you see Bloodragers with the Magical Knack trait.They likely wasted a trait.
Here is a quote from a designer mentioning that it is intentional that they get full caster level.
That's... from the playtest.
In 2013.
Hmmm, has it been mentioned by any of the devs whether the omission of the -3 caster level for bloodragers was intentional? Or that it means that the caster level for the Bloodrager is it's class level. Because without a line stating what the caster level actually is for the Bloodrager, most of the GMs I know consider it to be the same as Paladins or Rangers. Which is why you see Bloodragers with the Magical Knack trait.They likely wasted a trait.
Here is a quote from a designer mentioning that it is intentional that they get full caster level.
That's... from the playtest.
In 2013.
Yeah, but checking my PDF of ACG right now, nowhere in the Spells paragraph does it have the Ranger/Paladin wording of "Through 3rd level, a bloodrager has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is equal to his bloodrager level -3."
It still boggles my mind that bloodrager gets reduced spells, but not reduced caster level to fit that...
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No.
They are Divine Prepared Casters.
They can prepare any spell on their class spell list.
A Bloodrager has a limited number of spells known, and can only cast those known spells.
I think I'd usually trade prepared divine casting with a large(r) list of spells known for spontaneous arcane casting with limited spells known. Or at least consider them equal.
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I never said that they did prepare spells. However they do function like Rangers and Paladins in that they only receive 4 levels of spells, starting at level 4. However I also know they are different from Ranger/Paladin in that they gain a spell slot at 4th level, where Ranger/Paladins need to rely on bonus spell slots. Also they end up with less spells per day at high level for some odd reason.
All I'm saying is that there seemed to be a formula for 4 level casters already in place that they seemed to follow for some things and ignored for other things, which seems odd. With this and the warpriests 6/9 level casting, it's clear that the devs wanted to change how things worked, due to the classes be a hybrid of 2 parent classes, I just find it weird how they went about it.
A bloodrager is not a spellcaster until level 4, just like paladins/rangers. They just dont have the caster level penalty....
Do you have a page reference for that?
I have looked and haven't found anything in the book to indicate they do not have a caster level before 4th level.
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A bloodrager is not a spellcaster until level 4, just like paladins/rangers. They just dont have the caster level penalty....Do you have a page reference for that?
I have looked and haven't found anything in the book to indicate they do not have a caster level before 4th level.
Since they dont get spellcasting before level 4 there is really no more that needs to be said. Just like any other class feature you dont get it before you get it.
Since they dont get spellcasting before level 4 there is really no more that needs to be said. Just like any other class feature you dont get it before you get it.
A bloodrager is not a spellcaster until level 4, just like paladins/rangers. They just dont have the caster level penalty....Do you have a page reference for that?
I have looked and haven't found anything in the book to indicate they do not have a caster level before 4th level.
I don't think that caster level is dependent on the ability to cast spells.
Gnomes have a caster level for their racial SLAs. Monks have a caster level for their SU such as Abundant Step. Even rogues with the Minor Magic and Major Magic have a caster level for a Sp effect.
Since they dont get spellcasting before level 4 there is really no more that needs to be said. Just like any other class feature you dont get it before you get it.
A bloodrager is not a spellcaster until level 4, just like paladins/rangers. They just dont have the caster level penalty....Do you have a page reference for that?
I have looked and haven't found anything in the book to indicate they do not have a caster level before 4th level.
I don't think that caster level is dependent on the ability to cast spells.
Gnomes have a caster level for their racial SLAs. Monks have a caster level for their SU such as Abundant Step. Even rogues with the Minor Magic and Major Magic have a caster level for a Sp effect.
So what you are saying, is that if you can cast spells (or spell like ability etc.) you have a caster level? Sounds like it very much is related at least, if not dependent, on the ability to cast spells.
So what you are saying, is that if you can cast spells (or spell like ability etc.) you have a caster level? Sounds like it very much is related at least, if not dependent, on the ability to cast spells.I don't think that caster level is dependent on the ability to cast spells.
Gnomes have a caster level for their racial SLAs. Monks have a caster level for their SU such as Abundant Step. Even rogues with the Minor Magic and Major Magic have a caster level for a Sp effect.
Or supernatural ability. Probably an example of an Ex ability if I look hard enough. I've provided examples of caster level where the character can't cast spells.
You can't cast spells without a caster level. That doesn't mean that you can't have a caster level without being able to cast spells.
Since they dont get spellcasting before level 4 there is really no more that needs to be said. Just like any other class feature you dont get it before you get it.
A bloodrager is not a spellcaster until level 4, just like paladins/rangers. They just dont have the caster level penalty....Do you have a page reference for that?
I have looked and haven't found anything in the book to indicate they do not have a caster level before 4th level.
I don't think that caster level is dependent on the ability to cast spells.
Gnomes have a caster level for their racial SLAs. Monks have a caster level for their SU such as Abundant Step. Even rogues with the Minor Magic and Major Magic have a caster level for a Sp effect.
But do you give every body a caster level just in case they get spells later?
But do you give every body a caster level just in case they get spells later?
No.
But do you give every body a caster level just in case they get spells later?No.
they get there caster level at the same time as they get there spellcasting unless we imagine caster level is a thing that is for everybody at level 1. It is part of the feature of actually being able to use a SLA or cast a Spell and not a separate thing.