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Alter self doesn't provide a fly speed.
When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the humanoid type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, and swim 30 feet.
Small creature: If the form you take is that of a Small humanoid, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity.
Medium creature: If the form you take is that of a Medium humanoid, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength.
You could assume the form of a Strix, but you can't fly.
Edit: you should be able to assume the form of any Small or Medium humanoid, provided you have the resources for that humanoid. But you are still somewhat restricted as to what that transformation actually provides.
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Whoops, missed that part.
But I would still have wings, right? That honestly is the important part to me.
You would have wings. You look exactly like a Strix.
You still can't fly (or glide, etc.).
Similarly, if you assume the form of a Catfolk, you don't gain the Cat's Luck ability.
If you assume the form of a Grippli, you don't gain the Swamp Stride ability.
And so on.
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Alter Self is a transmutation (polymorph) spell.
Strix are humanoids, and so fulfil the requirement of the spell, but at the moment I can't tell if they're listed in a Bestiary or not.
If they are, you're good, as none of the Bestiaries have restrictions on what creatures you can assume with transmutation (polymorph) effects.
If they aren't, you're out of luck.
Victor Zajic
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Is the Bestiary only restriction in the Guide to Organized play? Because I couldn't find it in there.
Can anyone think of a Bestiary race that has wings? Can I Alter Self into a Scion of Humanity Aasimar with the Angel Wings feat? Can someone think of another way to get a humanoid with wings with Alter Self, so my Angel Blooded Aasimar can look more angelic when using his racial ability?
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Wouldn't matter if they have wings or not.
You are limited both by the form and by the spell. (like federal and state laws) If your options are strawberry, chocholate and vanillia and your state bans chocholate, and the feds ban strawberry you're stuck with vanillia.
It doesn't matter if you find a winged humanoid. Flight isn't an ability the spell can give you, and for good reason. Flight breakts encounters. You're not supposed to have flight available quite that early in your career.
LazarX
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Alter Self is a transmutation (polymorph) spell.
Strix are humanoids, and so fulfil the requirement of the spell, but at the moment I can't tell if they're listed in a Bestiary or not.
If they are, you're good, as none of the Bestiaries have restrictions on what creatures you can assume with transmutation (polymorph) effects.
If they aren't, you're out of luck.
You are limited however, by what the spell will give you. Alter Self will not give you flight nor even glide.
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Whoops, missed that part.
But I would still have wings, right? That honestly is the important part to me.
if all you want are the wings - or to appear to have wings -
get a Hat of Disguise. This would let you appear to be another creature of your type - and as an aasimar you couldn't look like an Elf, but you could look like a Solar. Instant wings.
No flight though (and you did say the wings were the important part right?) - and anyone reaching out and touching them would notice they aren't real. Maybe you could use a Masterwork Tool Disguise (set of feathered wings). and with a good disguise skill check...
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Being that you are an Aasimar there is an official way you can grow a pair of permanent Wings that will give you a fly speed as well.
Not by Alter Self but by having 13 Con, taking Angel Blood Feat and then after lvl 10 you take Angel Wings.
Until then you could purchase a cape known as Wings of Flying or even Cape of the Eagle and use Alter Self to make them look like how you want them to look like.
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Victor Zajic wrote:Whoops, missed that part.
But I would still have wings, right? That honestly is the important part to me.
if all you want are the wings - or to appear to have wings -
get a Hat of Disguise. This would let you appear to be another creature of your type - and as an aasimar you couldn't look like an Elf, but you could look like a Solar. Instant wings.
No flight though (and you did say the wings were the important part right?) - and anyone reaching out and touching them would notice they aren't real. Maybe you could use a Masterwork Tool Disguise (set of feathered wings). and with a good disguise skill check...
Once again, the hat of disguise is the Most Useful Item. :)
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Nefreet wrote:You are limited however, by what the spell will give you. Alter Self will not give you flight nor even glide.Alter Self is a transmutation (polymorph) spell.
Strix are humanoids, and so fulfil the requirement of the spell, but at the moment I can't tell if they're listed in a Bestiary or not.
If they are, you're good, as none of the Bestiaries have restrictions on what creatures you can assume with transmutation (polymorph) effects.
If they aren't, you're out of luck.
I never implied that it would.
Victor Zajic
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nosig wrote:Once again, the hat of disguise is the Most Useful Item. :)Victor Zajic wrote:Whoops, missed that part.
But I would still have wings, right? That honestly is the important part to me.
if all you want are the wings - or to appear to have wings -
get a Hat of Disguise. This would let you appear to be another creature of your type - and as an aasimar you couldn't look like an Elf, but you could look like a Solar. Instant wings.
No flight though (and you did say the wings were the important part right?) - and anyone reaching out and touching them would notice they aren't real. Maybe you could use a Masterwork Tool Disguise (set of feathered wings). and with a good disguise skill check...
That's a good idea, but I'm really just looking for something for when I'm using my racial Alter-Self.
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Once again, the hat of disguise is the Most Useful Item. :)
Especially when used to put the finishing touches on one's already considerable vulpine talent, eh?
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A couple things here, first is, where does it say that creatures in the beastiaries are the only eligible forms for Alter Self? Cause it seems kind of silly that you couldn't turn into a human with the spell. Second, would the Syrinx from the Inner Sea Bestiary would a good choice for a humanoid form with wings? I know the icon for the entry is monstrous humanoid, but I'm pretty sure it's a misprint as the description clearly calls out Humanoid(Syrinx) as the creature type. Third thing, because of the polymorph rules, Lizardfolk forms have claw/bite/bite with a 15 ft swim speed, which also lets you breath underwater, despite the fact that actual lizardfolk can't breath underwater. No darkvision like troglodytes though.
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where does it say that creatures in the beastiaries are the only eligible forms for Alter Self?
Not just Alter Self, but transmutation (polymorph) spells in general.
When reading the Additional Resources document, you must understand that it is permissive. You only gain access to the features stated in the document.
With that in mind, only Bestiaries 1-4 have a line stating that the creatures within are legal for polymorph effects.
No other source does.
Which is probably for the best, as there are some super broken forms of undead and monstrous humanoids available in several splatbooks, as well as the Inner Sea World Guide.
The Core Rulebook (and the races within it) are a special exception, since everything within is legal for play. Those few features that are not legal get called out, rather than the other way around.
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I realize that the Additional Resources is permissive, I guess I've never really noticed that the legal for polymorph effects line in bestiaries entries was there. Which would have made polymorph spells limited to the CRB in the case of humanoids, or completely useless for animal forms entirely, which clearly wasn't the case. So I've basically just been under the assumption that as a spell effect where the spell is legal, that the forms that the spells/ability allow for would be legal. Similar to how a spell/ability that provides a natural attack would work, despite nothing in the Additional Resources specifically allowing natural weapons.
But with that, it's pretty clear that others forms aren't allowed. I was mostly wondering if there was a rule in the FAQs, or the Guide to Organized Play that I may have missed. Cause despite looking at the Additional Resources numerous times, expecially while looking for ACs for my druid character, I've never really noticed or never really had it sink in. Also, thought that people were saying that the bestiaries were the only choices for polymorph effects, which made me think there must be a specific rule, since that wouldn't be the case if you were going by the core assumptions and the additional resources inclusiveness. And in fact isn't true, but I probably took things out of context.
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Well, it doesn't call out water breathing specifically, but from the polymorph entry on the PRD.
Polymorph: A polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature. Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores and a bonus to your natural armor. In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.
So you can breath while swimming, close enough I say, because any situation where you'd have to hold your breathe while in a liquid would probably allow you to swim.
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despite looking at the Additional Resources numerous times, expecially while looking for ACs for my druid character, I've never really noticed or never really had it sink in.
You're not alone.
This confusion has come up the most, IME, during Conventions, and specifically regarding players of Magi.
Many Magus builds emphasize Monstrous Physique to combine multiple natural attacks with touch spells like Frostbite.
The Calikang, IIRC, is a six-armed monstrous humanoid that is favorable, as you can keep wielding your (enlarged) weapons in addition to having loads of touchy feely fingers.
The problem is that the Calikang doesn't appear in any Bestiary.
There's a similar instance with some type of undead, as well, though that's less common.
People always have that blank stare when I try to explain why their build is illegal (especially since it doesn't kick in until like 10th level).
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I'm personally partial to the gargoyle for a combination of 4 primary natural weapons and wings for flying and darkvision. It's a pretty neat package and a go-to form for me since 3.5 (though in pathfinder you need monstrous physique to get the flight).
You need monstrous physique for a gargoyle period. Alter self only allows for humanoids, while monstrous physique allows for monstrous humanoids, which is what gargoyles are.