Does a parried attack count as a miss?


Rules Questions


I have a monk that is a Master of Many Styles and a Kata monk.

He has the Snake Fang feat that allows him to make an AoO when he is missed by a melee attack. He also has the Swashbuckler Opportune Parry and Riposte feature. If he parries an attack, does that count as a miss and trigger the AoO from Snake Fang?

Grand Lodge

At first glance I would say no, the Opportune Parry and Riposte is gives you the ability to attack after a successful parry via 'Riposte,' However, it does specify

From Swashbuckler Deed wrote:
... the creature's attack automatically misses

So yeah you probably could get an AoO from Snake Fang

However, you would need Combat Reflexes (no biggie, it sounds like your build wants it anyway) and you top out at two attacks from 1 miss (either the 2 from snake fang or riposte and 1 from snake fang, you don't have enough immediate actions to get the third attack that you would be due, and any further AoO's in the same round would only get the Snake Fang attack, but not the extra immediate one)

If this is for PFS I'd expect some variation, if it's for a home game I'd talk to your GM.


It's a Pathfinder Society game but has a fairly stable group and the same GM every time. We often look to the message boards for guidance and I thought I would get ahead of the curve on this one. If I get a fairly definitive thumbs up or a thumbs down on the board, we will most likely just go with that.

I don't think I would use both attacks, but I was wondering about having a choice of using the AoO from Snake Fang instead. This build has a lot of uses for immediate actions, and probably has more AoOs to burn than IAs.

And yes, combat reflexes was his first feat.


I don't think parries count as misses but I will check for a rules quote when I get home.


There was a discussion about crane wing way back when, I believe it was finally settled that there were three possible outcomes for attacks, hit, miss and deflected at that point. Basically an attack that hit but was nullified and wasn't a miss.

In this case, because the ability states it does miss, I would allow you to use it.

Shadow Lodge

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wraithstrike wrote:
I don't think parries count as misses but I will check for a rules quote when I get home.

Here's the relevant FAQ.

Quote:

Deflecting Attacks: Does an attack that is deflected count as a miss?

It depends on the ability that is deflecting the attack.

For example, the Deflect Arrows feat says, "Once per round when you would normally be hit with an attack from a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it." It doesn't say the attack is a miss or is treated as a miss--instead, you take no damage from the attack. Because it is not a miss, effects that would trigger on a miss (such as Efreeti Style or Snake Fang from Ultimate Combat) are not triggered.

Likewise, the Crane Wing feat (Ultimate Combat) uses similar language and does not say the deflected attack is a miss or treated as a miss.

...

Since Opportune Parry and Riposte says that it misses, it misses - the FAQ applies to parries/deflections that don't say it misses.


That FAQ was what I was talking about, but I was not home.

Here is the FAQ:

Quote:


Deflecting Attacks: Does an attack that is deflected count as a miss?
It depends on the ability that is deflecting the attack.
For example, the Deflect Arrows feat says, "Once per round when you would normally be hit with an attack from a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it." It doesn't say the attack is a miss or is treated as a miss--instead, you take no damage from the attack. Because it is not a miss, effects that would trigger on a miss (such as Efreeti Style or Snake Fang from Ultimate Combat) are not triggered.
Likewise, the Crane Wing feat (Ultimate Combat) uses similar language and does not say the deflected attack is a miss or treated as a miss.
Note that the Snatch Arrows feat counts as a deflected attack--you do not take damage if you choose to catch the weapons instead of just deflecting it, and catching the weapon does not mean the attack was a miss.
Update 5/29/13: If the attack is deflected, not only does the target take no damage, but any other effects (ability drain, negative levels, harmful conditions, and so on) associated with that attack do not occur. If the deflected attack is a touch spell or other effect that requires "holding the charge," the charge is not expended. For example, if a ghoul's claw attack is deflected, the target is not subject to the ghoul's paralysis ability from the attack. If a shocking grasp touch attack is deflected, the attacker is still "holding the charge." The Crane Wing feat will be updated in a future printing of Ultimate Combat to clarify these issues.

So basically it boils down to whether or the ability says the attack is a miss.

Now since the swashbuckler ability calls it out as "miss" then the OP's idea should work.


Yes, that should work... <snipped>

EDIT:
got semi-ninja'ed
wraithstrike's post is better anyway
read above~


It definitely seems like it works.

Though I think based on the precedent of how they had it work on crane wing (and not because of specific language) that it's probably more balanced if it counted as "other" rather than a miss.

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