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I recently read the Monster codex and I was shocked by how cool the book is. New monster, new feats, incredibly art and overall good to OK builds. I find myself liking this book much more than the NPC one and I would like to talk about some things about those books.
a) Letting aside the new mechanics and focusing only on the builds/examples, what would you consider is the more useful book? , I would say is the monster codex since we are (I assume) more familiar with the rules to create Pcs/Npcs than with the rules of adding levels to the monsters, so a monster codex book would save more time.
b) I find several for the builds in the NPC codex questionable at best. Like the CR 16 arbalester whose only trick is to shoot a crossbow for +27 (3d10+19 17-20/x2). Now, the monster codex also have weak builds, like the CR 15 Troll monarch with a pitiful low +6 to will, but I feel the NPC book suffer more from this. Enemies are supposed to be defeated by the PCs, but a lot of NPCs seems to be there for an easy loot (CR 15 mage slayer rogue seriously?).
c) Unfortunately, both books are filled with belt of str +x, headband of cha +y, cloak of resistance +z. It is incredibly repetitive and boring, but I understand the authors of the books, at some point the system just require them.
But in this case, I think the monster codex have the advantage. Make a gearless Troll slayer 5 vs a gearless human slayer 10 and the troll have the advantage.
Gear is a large part of the effectiveness of a character and monsters normally have natural abilities so they dont need as much gear so I would expect a gearless human to lose also. There is a thread on what happens if a gearless level 20 fighter goes up against a level 10 party. I dont think too many people expect for the fighter to survive.
Perhaps gearless is too restrictive, but at least without the big 4, it have to be boring to kill an enemy just to find yet another cloak of prot +2.
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remember all builds are made with the assumption of fighting a party of four, 15 point buy. So if your players are stronger...feel free to make them stronger, usually you can safely toss an advanced template without changing the CR or give them better gear if you plan to use them as boss.
Well the thing, without the big six items, their chances of survival, becomes way lower.
But well, it's no secret that monsters with class levels are better than humanoids with class levels most of the time.
Generally I prefer the Monster Codex, but then again, most of my players know me as a Monster fanboy. I love monsters and read them and their ecology in details to use them to the best of their abilities and sometime had the most vicious encounters you could imagine.
remember all builds are made with the assumption of fighting a party of four, 15 point buy. So if your players are stronger...feel free to make them stronger, usually you can safely toss an advanced template without changing the CR or give them better gear if you plan to use them as boss.
That probably work before CR 10 or so, but I have the feeling that too many of the high level builds just don't represent a valid threat for a solid party (not talking about an optimized party)
They are both equally useful at my table. Love both codex books. We need more!
Definitely. monster codex of the inner sea promise to be an stellar book.
I think I will get more use out of the Monster Codex than the NPC one.
It came out just in time for me to revitalize my Rise of the Runelords game, so certain areas will now be MUCH more interesting than 30+ basic Ogres.
Not sure how the addition of all those magic ogre hooks and chain shirts will affect the game.
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I find the NPC codex is more useful for grabbing random NPCs. My problem with the NPC codex in general though is that some of the mid-level NPCs are special snowflakes when I want like...average guys.
I go looking for a 10th level fighter and I get some weird gnome lady who uses UMD to pretend to be a wizard. Its a neat concept, don't get me wrong, but I was hoping to spare myself the trouble of messing with feats and skills too much.
I also find the ACs on NPCs to be underwhelming. But I think that's a typical thing.
The monster codex helps a bit with what I view as one of the major problems of levelled enemies. A 15th level orc fighter generally is no different from any other fighter except his race is 'orc.'
The monster codex addresses that with different feats, skills, and spells to 'flavor' enemies appropriately.
The thing I actually don't like about a lot of the monstrous races is that they all have those racial HD tacked on, rather than having rebuilds with class levels.
I think a better book would have been something more like an ARG but for monsters, giving us monstrous races, archetypes, and new abilities for those races so they play like PC races.
I'd also like to see more monster progression tables like what we get with the various dragons, so I can build monsters who actually gain new abilities as they progress through their HD, like a class.
Perhaps Monster Classes, or archetypes for racial HD that make monsters less boring and make them comparable in combat to PCs without having to give them class levels and basic gear that the players already have.
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Contributor
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The thing I actually don't like about a lot of the monstrous races is that they all have those racial HD tacked on, rather than having rebuilds with class levels.
I think a better book would have been something more like an ARG but for monsters, giving us monstrous races, archetypes, and new abilities for those races so they play like PC races.
I'd also like to see more monster progression tables like what we get with the various dragons, so I can build monsters who actually gain new abilities as they progress through their HD, like a class.
Perhaps Monster Classes, or archetypes for racial HD that make monsters less boring and make them comparable in combat to PCs without having to give them class levels and basic gear that the players already have.
Something like this, provided for certain controversial races (efreeti), would also be useful for simulacrum's little issue. :)
I find the NPC codex is more useful for grabbing random NPCs. My problem with the NPC codex in general though is that some of the mid-level NPCs are special snowflakes when I want like...average guys.
I go looking for a 10th level fighter and I get some weird gnome lady who uses UMD to pretend to be a wizard. Its a neat concept, don't get me wrong, but I was hoping to spare myself the trouble of messing with feats and skills too much.
I also find the ACs on NPCs to be underwhelming. But I think that's a typical thing.
The monster codex helps a bit with what I view as one of the major problems of levelled enemies. A 15th level orc fighter generally is no different from any other fighter except his race is 'orc.'
The monster codex addresses that with different feats, skills, and spells to 'flavor' enemies appropriately.
You might be interested in a relatively cheap 3PP supplement called "The NPC Collection" which features statblocks for 350 NPCS. It's a good way to grab some basic NPCs of any level without the complexity of the NPC Codex.
And then of course there are the NPCs offered in the Gamemastery Guide as well.
CAn you link that book?
I can't find it. It might be on another site.
Here you go:
Taht is very cheap for 350 NPcs.
Here you go:
Thanks. I am going to get that now.
They have a bundle of books for about 5.00.