| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Hello guys, I'm having trouble to decide something about the Skald's ability: Song of the Fallen.
Song of the Fallen (Su) At 14th level, a skald can temporarily revive dead allies to continue fighting, with the same limitations as raise dead. The skald selects a dead ally within 60 feet and expends 1 round of raging song to bring that ally back to life. The revived ally is alive but staggered. Each round, the skald may expend another 1 round of raging song to keep that ally alive for another round. The ally automatically dies if the skald ends this performance or is interrupted. The skald may revive multiple allies with this ability (either at the same time or over successive rounds) but must expend 1 round of raging song per revived ally per round to maintain the effect.
I apply this song in a friend. Right, he has 16 constitution and take a hit. Now he is dead, with -18HP. I start to play Song of Fallen and revive him, now he is dead (but alive because the song) with -18HP. In the same round, I cast cure Light wounds (1d8+5); and I heal 11 lifepoints. Now he is -7, and alive (by raw rules).
When I stop to perform, he still dead? Even healing him and leaving a damage less than his Constitution score?
Thanks for reading.
The ally automatically dies if the skald ends this performance or is interrupted.
The ally automatically dies if the skald ends this performance or is interrupted.
But if he is alive now, why the song still affecting him?
I think the way to run it is that they keep the DEAD status, meaning normal healing, like cure light, isn't a valid spell to use. Because as is, yes he still dies when you stop the song since it says so in the description, and doesn't care about their HP once they've been raised by the song.
The one thing along those lines this does is (I think) it technically restarts the timer for breath of life.
It looks like, RAW for the Song of the Fallen, you are getting the character back alive via the "Raise Dead" spell and your dead person would come back with his HD in HP with the Staggered condition.
When you stop playing he is dead again. Essentially the song lets dead warriors fight, but does not resurrect them like a cleric could.
That is how I am reading it at least.
I think the way to run it is that they keep the DEAD status, meaning normal healing, like cure light, isn't a valid spell to use. Because as is, yes he still dies when you stop the song since it says so in the description, and doesn't care about their HP once they've been raised by the song.
"The revived ally is alive but staggered."
"Ally is alive". Why the cure spell does not work?
I think the cure spell is moot. It can be cast to give them extra HP while you continue to sing the song of the fallen, but once the song ends they die again anyway.
The idea of balance being: 1 round of bardic performance does not mitigate player death.
I think the way to run it is that they keep the DEAD status, meaning normal healing, like cure light, isn't a valid spell to use. Because as is, yes he still dies when you stop the song since it says so in the description, and doesn't care about their HP once they've been raised by the song."The revived ally is alive but staggered."
"Ally is alive". Why the cure spell does not work?
RAW it does work, it just doesn't matter. The character never stops being the target of the song, so they're still affected by it. They are staggered and they die when the song ends.
I think the cure spell is moot. It can be cast to give them extra HP while you continue to sing the song of the fallen, but once the song ends they die again anyway.
The idea of balance being: 1 round of bardic performance does not mitigate player death.
But his HP does not make any difference, because he is dead. If he is dead, and I still to perform, the ally can still fight. But If he is alive (the description say this), and a cure spell works on any alive target... Why, then?
RAW it does work, it just doesn't matter. The character never stops being the target of the song, so they're still affected by it. They are staggered and they die when the song ends.I think the way to run it is that they keep the DEAD status, meaning normal healing, like cure light, isn't a valid spell to use. Because as is, yes he still dies when you stop the song since it says so in the description, and doesn't care about their HP once they've been raised by the song."The revived ally is alive but staggered."
"Ally is alive". Why the cure spell does not work?
Well, the target are DEAD allies (negative damage high than cons. score). if I use cure light wounds, he is now alive; and the song stops to affect him (because he is not dead anymore). By RAW.
Yes, because he's not actually affected by Raise Dead, he's temporarily revived.
per the Raise Dead spell your ally doesn't come back with negative hit points. He has HP equal to his Hit Die (so a level 14 character would have 14 HP).
Yes, because he's not actually affected by Raise Dead, he's temporarily revived.
But he is alive by all means. Even healing him? He has 14 constitution score, and only -7 damage now. Is he still dead when the song stops?
Yes. The song is the only thing keeping him from being dead. No song=no life.
Yes. The song is the only thing keeping him from being dead. No song=no life.
But... how someone is dead with -7 while the cons. score is 14?
The song says that a target raised by the song dies again after the song ends, no care for any HP, thus a character could be dead and at full HP.
Dead is a condition, and being "alive" by this song isn't removing the dead condition from them which says "cannot benefit from normal or magical healing"
The reference to raise dead is for limitations such as
A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can't be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can't be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age.
and
You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than 1 day per caster level. In addition, the subject's soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject's soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.
Because they're not really alive, your magic song is faking it for them.
Yes. The song is the only thing keeping him from being dead. No song=no life.But... how someone is dead with -7 while the cons. score is 14?
Because the song says so, if you allow healing to work on them then they could be dead while at full hp.
The song says that a target raised by the song dies again after the song ends, no care for any HP, thus a character could be dead and at full HP.
Dead is a condition, and being "alive" by this song isn't removing the dead condition from them which says "cannot benefit from normal or magical healing"
The reference to raise dead is for limitations such as
A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can't be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can't be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age.and
You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than 1 day per caster level. In addition, the subject's soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject's soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.
But he isn't a Undead. He is alive.
Because they're not really alive, your magic song is faking it for them.
The revived >>ally is alive<< but staggered.
But he isn't a Undead. He is alive.The song says that a target raised by the song dies again after the song ends, no care for any HP, thus a character could be dead and at full HP.
Dead is a condition, and being "alive" by this song isn't removing the dead condition from them which says "cannot benefit from normal or magical healing"
The reference to raise dead is for limitations such as
A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can't be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can't be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age.and
You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than 1 day per caster level. In addition, the subject's soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject's soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.
You're right, he doesn't become Undead. He is alive with the dead condition. If you feel he's a valid target for cure spells, fine, it doesn't really matter that much since he still dies again at the end of the song regardless.
You have the answer to your question, five different people all saying the same thing. I'm sorry you don't like it and feel it's wrong. I doubt you'll get anything you want from this thread.
You're right, he doesn't become Undead. He is alive with the dead condition. If you feel he's a valid target for cure spells, fine, it doesn't really matter that much since he still dies again at the end of the song regardless.But he isn't a Undead. He is alive.The song says that a target raised by the song dies again after the song ends, no care for any HP, thus a character could be dead and at full HP.
Dead is a condition, and being "alive" by this song isn't removing the dead condition from them which says "cannot benefit from normal or magical healing"
The reference to raise dead is for limitations such as
A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can't be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can't be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age.and
You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than 1 day per caster level. In addition, the subject's soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject's soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.
Dead rules:
The character's hit points are reduced to a negative amount equal to his Constitution score, his Constitution drops to 0, or he is killed outright by a spell or effect. The character's soul leaves his body. Dead characters cannot benefit from normal or magical healing, but they can be restored to life via magic. A dead body decays normally unless magically preserved, but magic that restores a dead character to life also restores the body either to full health or to its condition at the time of death (depending on the spell or device). Either way, resurrected characters need not worry about rigor mortis, decomposition, and other conditions that affect dead bodies.He is alive, can be targeted by healing spells. If he's alive, get healed and his HP are reduced to a negative amount LESS to his cons. score; by RAW he is alive. Not subject to my song anymore.
You have the answer to your question, five different people all saying the same thing. I'm sorry you don't like it and feel it's wrong. I doubt you'll get anything you want from this thread.
Read above. I just want a reason. By RAW he is not dead anymore.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Just because his hit points change doesn't mean he's no longer affected by the song. The song says he dies when the song ends. So in your quoted dead rules, he's dead again because he is killed outright by a spell or effect. Specifically the song.
Edit: Not dead any more. Dead again.
Just because his hit points change doesn't mean he's no longer affected by the song. The song says he dies when the song ends. So in your quoted dead rules, he's dead again because he is killed outright by a spell or effect. Specifically the song.
Now it makes sense. :3
He is only "alive" during the song. Regardless of healing or not, when the song ends, he dies again. Plain and simple. That is what the song says. Heal him, cut off his arm, throw hummus at him, whatever. When the song ends, he dies again.
It's just what it does (and says that it does).
Edit: Ninja'd
He is only "alive" during the song. Regardless of healing or not, when the song ends, he dies again. Plain and simple. That is what the song says. Heal him, cut off his arm, throw hummus at him, whatever. When the song ends, he dies again.
It's just what it does (and says that it does).
But... heal him, he is not dead anymore, not subject to the song (targets are DEAD, by raw he is alvie). So, my song not affects he anymore because he is not DEAD. But Berinor showed a good reason in the rules to accept the dead by the song.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If you (and your GM) want to do something that works RAW here but fails the sniff test on interacting power levels, I recommend combining this with breath of life (like mentioned upthread). Since they die again, they're dead the previous round and a valid target for the spell.
As a GM I would not be allow it, though.
If you (and your GM) want to do something that works RAW here but fails the sniff test on interacting power levels, I recommend combining this with breath of life (like mentioned upthread). Since they die again, they're dead the previous round and a valid target for the spell.
As a GM I would not be allow it, though.
Yup. <3 Thanks for you attention.
Thank you guys. Sorry for the trouble.