The strangler have issues. I Think most strangler builds Will take IUS at level 1 or dip in to classes that gives it since you need it for improved grabble.
Why would they need it right off the bat? I haven't looked at this specifically but there are plenty of classes that allow you to make use of feats you do not meet the prerequisites for.
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That's why I built a Rogue Grappler.
One level of Unarmed Fighter then Scout rogue the rest of the way with whatever archtype you wanna add on top of it. I chose Cutpurse for fun.
Add in the grapple feats, agile maneuvers, strangler feat, body shield & whatever style tree you want. I chose the Snapping Turtle Style tree.
In an urban campaign it is fun to run, bound & charge around punching & kicking for sneak attacks! Stealing stuff off the enemy when you do. Then grabbing folks when they try to hit you, cracking their necks or suffocating them, stealing off them and using them as a shield. Not the best for everything but fun to play!!!
That's why I built a Rogue Grappler.
One level of Unarmed Fighter then Scout rogue the rest of the way with whatever archtype you wanna add on top of it. I chose Cutpurse for fun.Add in the grapple feats, agile maneuvers, strangler feat, body shield & whatever style tree you want. I chose the Snapping Turtle Style tree.
In an urban campaign it is fun to run, bound & charge around punching & kicking for sneak attacks! Stealing stuff off the enemy when you do. Then grabbing folks when they try to hit you, cracking their necks or suffocating them, stealing off them and using them as a shield. Not the best for everything but fun to play!!!
I dont see how a rogue can be a valid grappeler unless there is some mecahnism to boost the initial grapple chek. If this is a character you have build and played i would be very interested it seeing it. It would be great to have what you describe but i sure cant see how to built it.
Not to mention that making an Agile Maneuvers Grappler is nearly pointless unless you have either Practiced Strangler (Strangler Class ability) or some other way to avoid the Grappled Condition giving you the -4 DEX. Otherwise you shoot yourself in the foot just by grappling.
This was the main reason I went with Strangler over some of the other options.
I made a built that combined the Blood Conduit and the strangler. It is not a dex based grappler but the Many options to boost grappeling on the bloodrager combined with the reach of the Abherrent bloodline looks like fun. But i never finished the build or played the character.
Yeah, Strangler is one of those kinda human-only options unless you're starting at a higher level or okay taking AoOs at first. It's silly, but there it is.
Yet another reason to dislike the way feat taxes are handled in this game. Right up there with, "So my purple worm has to become an expert at fisticuffs before he can get better at nomming adventurers?"
The Brawler Archetype Strangler loses the Unarmed Strike class feature, as well as the Brawler's Flurry class feature. This means that Strangler's do not get Improved Unarmed Strike by default.
How does the fact that Stranglers are proficient in the Close Weapon Group, which includes Unarmed Strike, impact their ability to use their fists/feet/etc? Do they still provoke? Does this do anything?
How does the loss of Improved Unarmed Strike impact later class abilities like Brawler's Strike? Do I now have a class ability which asks me to take a feat (IUS) just to use?
Additionally, from a character-building standpoint, IUS is a prerequisite for Improved Grapple, a basically manditory feat for Stranglers. This means that a non-human level 1 Strangler is non-functional as a character. Or, is only functional for 4 minutes in the day (using Martial Flexibility to get Improved Grapple).
Is all of this intended? I have heard rumors that the Strangle ability was meant to replace Brawler's Flurry and Brawler's Strike, but there has not been an FAQ or anything that I can find.
First, regarding proficiency in Close weapons, IUS isn't a matter of proficiency. You'll notice that even without IUS, you can make Unarmed Strikes without the -4 non-proficiency penalty. The drawback is that it provokes an AoO. Everyone is proficient with their Unarmed Strikes by default.
Second, regarding feat progression, there's a reason the Strangler gets Stealth added as a class skill. They're not supposed to be grappling mid-combat with absolutely no penalty right from level 1. They're supposed to be sneaking up unseen on a target and initiating with a grapple. If the target is unaware of them, then the target can't make an AoO against them. And, as stated, up to 4 times a day, you can grab Improved Grapple for 1 minute (provided you grabbed IUS at lvl 1). This is in addition to times you can simply sneak up to grapple. Then, once you hit level 2, you can pick...
i agree with your first point.
But i disagree with the second. I belive it is a mistake and a result of the non too impressive finish of the ACG.
Yes, the Strangler is one of those archetypes from the ACG that I believe were mistyped. There is no official word yet from PDT; however, Paizo is working on errata to the ACG so the answer will be given in time. My understanding is that Paizo indicated they would release the errata as soon as it is completed as opposed to waiting on a reprint. I could be wrong on that though.
I believe Brawler's Strike was the intended feature to be replaced for the Strangler is it does not make sense to remove the one feature that makes a Strangler playable at 1st level without having to catch your opponent unawares to utilize the build behind the class.
Can we at least agree that a high-level Strangler works fine? It seems like it would to me.
Can we at least agree that a high-level Strangler works fine? It seems like it would to me.
Bruno made a Nice build, that seems to be great. Still defensively weak compared to the tetori, but otherwise strong.