*Game starts at level 4
Name: Unknown!
Race: Human
Class(es): Maneuver Master/Weapon Adept Monk 2/Staff/Hexcrafter Magus 2
HP: 31 (using Favored class bonus on HP)
Background: He grew up near the worldwound in Ustalav in a family with a line of arcane casters. At a young age, his father became corrupted by some Abyssal forces. Because of this he left his family at a very young age (with his family's heirloom quarterstaff), eventually stumbling upon some Monks in the mountains of Varisia. He was taken in by a Half-Orc Monk, Bubvonjaegermeister, who just passed away (my friends character who died in a campaign) and left the monastary distraught.
Stats: Str: 20 (+2 racial and +1 4th level bonus), Dex: 15, Con: 12, Int: 18 (+2 racial (used Dual Talent alt. trait), Wis: 9, Cha: 14
* We use a unique stat structure where you can allocate a 17,16, and 15 then roll the other stats in order so thus the somewhat odd stat composition. *
Feats:
Lvl1: Combat Expertise
Lvl1 Monk bonus: Combat Reflexes
Lvl1 Monk bonus: Improved Trip
Lvl2 Monk bonus: Weapon Focus (quarterstaff)
Lvl3: Vicious stomp
Other features:
Improved Unarmed strike (monk)
Master of Maneuvers (monk)
Quarterstaff Master (staff magus)
Traits:
Bred for War (+1 cmb)
Heirloom Weapon (+2 trip)
Magical Lineage (shocking grasp)
Drawback: Paranoid
Level 4 stats: +8 attack rolls, Trip CMB: +12
Future levels: Advance levels in Magus the rest of the way
Lvl5 (feat): Weapon Specialization (quarterstaff)
Lvl5 (arcana): Wand Wielder
Lvl6 (hexbonus): Evil Eye
Lvl7 (magi bonus feat): Intensify Spell (shocking grasp)
Lvl7 (feat): Hexstrike (Evil Eye)
Lvl8 (arcana): Flight
Lvl9 (feat): Greater Trip
That's as far as I've planned so far. At one point I was toying with switching out hexstrike for toughness at level 1 to help with my low HP (and taking combat expertise at level 7). Also, I really wish I could squeeze Slumber in there somewhere as it's just a great spell.
General combat strategies:
1. When I have spells, I'm closing the enemy with spellstrike dropping a two-handed attack or using spellstrike with a trip (is this legal?).
2. Once I get full round attacks, assuming I have spells I'm: 1) adding an enhancement bonus through my arcane pool, 2) using my flurry of maneuvers to trip the opponent, 3) if successful vicious stomping them, 4) using spell combat with spellstrike for an attack and delivering shocking grasp, 5) delivering my actual attack, 6) Waiting for the baddie to get up to deliver my other AOO on their turn.
3. When I don't have spells (or I need other buffs), I'm hoping to use wands and the hexstrike feature more often.
4. I'm looking to use shillegah oil when I need an extra punch as well. In that case I might use that as a standard action (would I have to use a move action to pull the oil out if it's in a bandolier?) and then grab my wand as a free action when moving (If i can), then close. Does Shillegah stack with enlarge by the way? (if so, 3d6 attacks!).
I'd love for anyone's input, general thoughts, critiques on the build.
I'd drop the second Monk level.
One is giving you interesting stuff. Two is giving you... Weapon Focus?
Not great, that.
Also yes, you can Spellstrike on a trip.
Keep in mind the Magus' mobility spells (Bladed Dash in particular) for movement. That might serve you better than the two-handed Spellstrike strategy, since you have a strong incentive to full attack even from low levels.
How are you getting two Monk bonus feats? Maneuver Master doesn't grant an extra bonus feat, it just changes what feats are available.
Woops, I meant second level for the Improved Trip (monk bonus feat)!
So that gives me two feats at level 2: improved trip and weapon focus. Yeah, I"m on the fence about whether it's worth it; good point.
Good idea about blade dash!
What do you think of the idea of using the hexstrike function; do you think evil eye is the ideal hex for that? I was thinking that or either ice tomb, though with ice tomb I'll have to wait a bunch of levels to use it.
Also, do you think my character is going to be too squishy without Toughness or some kind of HP enhancement?
Last time I built a Hex Strike Magus I had Hex Strike twice; once for Slumber and once for Ice Tomb. Evil Eye, to me, just raises the question of why I'm not knocking the target on his back instead of making him easier to deal with (for, generally, attacks that aren't being used until next round).
Great hex, mind, but it's great as a setup piece. Not something you drop when you're in the other guy's face slugging him.
Squishy... if you're starting at first level, yes, but not from your HP. You have a +2 bonus to AC from Dex, and... that's it. Monk isn't proficient in armor, so you're going to be eating nonproficiency penalties, and that for another +4 AC (unless you're rich, then you can avoid them and still get +3 AC for 500 gold). Nasty call to make... but if you don't, you're a sitting duck.
And you will be for a long time. At 3rd the proficiency issues go away but you're still a soft target. It'll be 9th before you can upgrade to a Breastplate, 15th for Full Plate (at which point you probably won't even want to upgrade, but maybe you will).
You need to ask yourself what is your goal with thi character, because the multiclassing is hurting you without much benefit.
First off, you can't use flurry of maneuvers and spell combat in the same round. Flurry of Maneuvers allows extra maneuvers to be made during a full attack action. Spell Combat is a special full round action that is not a full attack, even though it allows you to make attacks as if you were making one.
Secondly, your tanked wisdom means you are losing the benefit of monk AC.
Third, the minor feats and flurry of maneuvers are not worth the delay in spells, hexes, arcana, arcane pool points, and caster level.
Some alternatives:
If you want to be a monk that curses people, take a look at the Harrow Warden. It's a fantastic monk archetype that trades stunning fist for a misfortune effect and bestow curse.
If you want to be a melee fighter that can deliver touch spells via unarmed strikes or maneuvers, Blood Conduit bloodrager is very attractive, although more on the martial side.
If you want hexes and spells, stay pure magus.
Flurry of Maneuvers actually does work. It's an effect that modifies a Full Attack Action; as per FAQ (the one regarding Haste) such things work with Spell Combat.
He doesn't have a choice in his Wis, though I agree that it makes Monk... risky. At best.
Eh, it's a little unclear to me that Flurry of Maneuvers applies.
Faq wrote: Magus, Spell Combat: Does spell combat count as making a full attack action for the purpose of haste and other effects?
Yes.
Edit 9/9/13: This is a revised ruling about how haste interacts with effects that are essentially a full attack, even though the creature isn't specifically using the full attack action (as required by haste). The earlier ruling did not allow the extra attack from haste when using spell combat.
The edit portion there only lists haste as part of the justification for the reversal. Still, the "other effects" section does state that it would work. But I would still expect table variation with it.
I can't really see the table variation given that Flurry of Maneuvers works almost exactly like Haste. When you full attack, you get a bonus attack. For Haste the attack is an actual attack, for FoM it's a maneuver, but... same thing at the basics, right? Haste is really just a better Flurry for most maneuvers anyway.
Mostly because I see flurry of maneuver as flurry of blows, not haste. Flurry effects are specifically denied from stacking with other feats or abilities that give bonus feats all the time. Zen Archer and Far Strike Monk can't use rapid shot with a flurry, for example.
I see it as not being intended because your are using flurry of maneuvers to "two weapon fight" and spell combat to "two weapon fight" at the same time.
That said, I agree that the faq does allow it as it stands.
Ah.
See, I don't see the two Flurries as working the same.
Flurry of Blows + Spell Combat, I'd expect massive table variance. Personally my stance is no.
And I'd read up on Flurry of Maneuvers intending to say that exact thing in this thread... and then I read it, and said "so it's Haste for maneuvers... that actually does work".
*Shrug* I might take a dimmer view in a gestalt game but... probably not even then since Monk//Magus doesn't gestalt all that well for power. Fun flavor though.
A bit of an aside.
kestral287 wrote: Last time I built a Hex Strike Magus I had Hex Strike twice; once for Slumber and once for Ice Tomb. Evil Eye, to me, just raises the question of why I'm not knocking the target on his back instead of making him easier to deal with (for, generally, attacks that aren't being used until next round). I always assumed that Hexcrafters couldn't qualify for Hex Strike because they don't have a feature called Hex. Reading through the Hex Magus class ability just now I noticed this:
Ultimate Magic wrote: Hex Magus (Su)
At 4th level, the hexcrafter magus gains access to a small number of witch’s hexes. The hexcrafter magus picks one hex from the witch’s hex class feature. He gains the benefit of or uses that hex as if he were a witch of a level equal to his magus level.
So do you think they count as having the Hex Class Feature because of the bolded part above, or are you using the "abilities that do the same thing count as each other" principle that some of the devs have mentioned?
Gisher wrote: A bit of an aside.
kestral287 wrote: Last time I built a Hex Strike Magus I had Hex Strike twice; once for Slumber and once for Ice Tomb. Evil Eye, to me, just raises the question of why I'm not knocking the target on his back instead of making him easier to deal with (for, generally, attacks that aren't being used until next round). I always assumed that Hexcrafters couldn't qualify for Hex Strike because they don't have a feature called Hex. Reading through the Hex Magus class ability just now I noticed this:
Ultimate Magic wrote: Hex Magus (Su)
At 4th level, the hexcrafter magus gains access to a small number of witch’s hexes. The hexcrafter magus picks one hex from the witch’s hex class feature. He gains the benefit of or uses that hex as if he were a witch of a level equal to his magus level.
So do you think they count as having the Hex Class Feature because of the bolded part above, or are you using the "abilities that do the same thing count as each other" principle that some of the devs have mentioned?
I would say from RAW no as far as I see it. The class feature is not THE "HEX" class feature but is the "HEX MAGUS" class feature which does not say it is the HEX feature with modifications.
However in a home game I would allow without much thought.
Gisher wrote: A bit of an aside.
kestral287 wrote: Last time I built a Hex Strike Magus I had Hex Strike twice; once for Slumber and once for Ice Tomb. Evil Eye, to me, just raises the question of why I'm not knocking the target on his back instead of making him easier to deal with (for, generally, attacks that aren't being used until next round). I always assumed that Hexcrafters couldn't qualify for Hex Strike because they don't have a feature called Hex. Reading through the Hex Magus class ability just now I noticed this:
Ultimate Magic wrote: Hex Magus (Su)
At 4th level, the hexcrafter magus gains access to a small number of witch’s hexes. The hexcrafter magus picks one hex from the witch’s hex class feature. He gains the benefit of or uses that hex as if he were a witch of a level equal to his magus level.
So do you think they count as having the Hex Class Feature because of the bolded part above, or are you using the "abilities that do the same thing count as each other" principle that some of the devs have mentioned?
The latter. There's a post floating around somewhere-- I could dig it up if I really felt the urge-- that's basically "check the contents over the label".
The Hexcrafter has Hexes. He has a class feature that grants said Hexes. For the purpose of feats, he has a Hex class feature.
I don't want to derail the thread, so I'll just thank both of you for your responses. I'm still learning the art of RAW, so it is helpful to hear from people with different styles.
Except even with that post you'll have people say yes and no to if things can happen. So if you can check with your GM first that would be best.
Chess Pwn wrote: Except even with that post you'll have people say yes and no to if things can happen. So if you can check with your GM first that would be best. Yeah, after time on these forums, I've begun to understand that there isn't one RAW that everyone can agree on. (I personally tend toward Kjeldor's interpretation on this one.) I asked the question just to get different perspectives on RAW interpretation. I don't have any interest in getting Hex Strike myself, but something similar might turn up in the future.
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