Demiplane and permanency

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

If you can cast demiplane early from say a scroll what level do you need to be to make it permanent?

can a 9th level caster who successfully uses a scroll of Greater Demiplane then cast his prepared Permanency and pay the 22,500 GP cost to make it permanent?

The spells all say:
"You can make this spell permanent with the permanency spell, at a cost of (Varies by spell)gp. If you have cast create demiplane multiple times to enlarge the demiplane, each casting’s area requires its own permanency spell."

[LazarX]

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

If you can cast demiplane early from say a scroll what level do you need to be to make it permanent?

can a 9th level caster who successfully uses a scroll of Greater Demiplane then cast his prepared Permanency and pay the 22,500 GP cost to make it permanent?

The spells all say:
"You can make this spell permanent with the permanency spell, at a cost of (Varies by spell)gp. If you have cast create demiplane multiple times to enlarge the demiplane, each casting’s area requires its own permanency spell."

Since it's not specified, I'd say that the caster level of the spell has to match the caster level of the scroll used to make the demi-plane.

[Ravingdork]

Makes me wonder: How much does a scroll of permanency, or other spell with a variable component, costs? Do you pay during the creation process, or after? If before, how much do you need to pay?

[LazarX]

Ravingdork wrote:

Makes me wonder: How much does a scroll of permanency, or other spell with a variable component, costs? Do you pay during the creation process, or after? If before, how much do you need to pay?

Two ways to handle it: The scroll is made specifically for the spell it's going to permanise and the costs for making the scroll are added to the standard formula.

Or the scroll is made by the standard formula for spell level and caster level, and the added costs are ritual materials consumed in the casting.

[Sandslice]

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

If you can cast demiplane early from say a scroll what level do you need to be to make it permanent?

15 for Lesser Demiplane, 16 for Demiplane, and 17 for Greater Demiplane. Source: Other spells of the same spell-level and Permanency material cost, extrapolated from Permanency spell.

Keep in mind that Permanency, being a CRB spell, refers to CRB spells as an example; this should not be taken as an argument that other books' spells (the Demiplanes are from UM) follow different rules.

Quote:

can a 9th level caster who successfully uses a scroll of Greater Demiplane then cast his prepared Permanency and pay the 22,500 GP cost to make it permanent?

No. Greater Demiplane requires caster level 17. See above.

[_Ozy_]

From the spell:

Quote:

Depending on the spell, you must be of a minimum caster level and must expend a specific gp value of diamond dust as a material component.

From the creation rules:

Quote:

The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires. A material component is consumed when she begins writing, but a focus is not.

Seems pretty clear to me.

[_Ozy_]

Interestingly enough, the material component cost is directly related to the caster level by the following formula:

(CL - 8) * 2,500gp

So, the caster level of the scroll should also set the material component cost, as well as the spells that can be made permanent.

[Claxon]

Create lesser demiplane is a 7th level spell.

I'm going to go with Caster Level 15 based on the Symbol of Stunning and Symbol of Weakness spells both being 7th level spells and requiring caster level 15. Also phase door.

All spells that require caster level 15 are 7th level spells.

To me it doesn't make sense to make it more difficult to permanently establish a demiplane whether its created by lesser/greater or regular create demiplane.

Edit: Now that I go through and reread the create demiplane line of spells and seeing the permanency costs and that each section created (if using multiple create lesser/regular/greater) requires it's own permanency I now disagree with my earlier self and say:

lesser demiplane 15cl
regular 16cl
greater 17cl

with the permanency costs as listed in the description.

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Thanks all

[LazarX]

Claxon wrote:

Create lesser demiplane is a 7th level spell.

I'm going to go with Caster Level 15 based on the Symbol of Stunning and Symbol of Weakness spells both being 7th level spells and requiring caster level 15. Also phase door.

All spells that require caster level 15 are 7th level spells.

To me it doesn't make sense to make it more difficult to permanently establish a demiplane whether its created by lesser/greater or regular create demiplane.

Edit: Now that I go through and reread the create demiplane line of spells and seeing the permanency costs and that each section created (if using multiple create lesser/regular/greater) requires it's own permanency I now disagree with my earlier self and say:

lesser demiplane 15cl
regular 16cl
greater 17cl

with the permanency costs as listed in the description.

It doesn't make sense to you, because you don't want to pay the cost.

The standard and greater demiplane spells are more powerful, create a lot more area than the lesser spell, so yes, logically, it does make more sense, just as you would have to pay more to make arcane sight permanent than you would detect magic.

If you can get your GM to give it to you on the cheap, more power to you.

[Claxon]

K, LazarX turn it down a bit.

1) I never play spellcasters (with more than 4th level spell progression) so it's not a "I don't want to pay" issue.

2) I already said that I was wrong, you even quoted my edit wherein I realized when I reread the spell that it specified that you had to pay for permanency for each "section" of the demiplane that you want to make permanent. Original I thought you could make the whole thing permanent with one casting, which is why it didn't make sense.

So...chill out.