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I'm building a daring champion cavalier and not sure which direction to go. I have two builds in mind. There are two other melee characters in the party, neither of which are built defensively.
Slashing Grace route
-Pros: higher hit which makes power attack more practical (weapon focus, sword scion), lets me use slashing weapons, more damage up front
-Cons: Weapon Focus is a slight feat tax, need to get both feats right away for class features to work which delays everything else
Bodyguard route
-Pros: two other melee characters makes aid another a legitimate strategy, parry helps with being focused by enemies, can utilize the order of the dragon abilities more
-Cons: takes much work to be useful (order of the dragon, halfling, etc), doesn't seem too useful at higher levels where AC isn't as good, discourages flanking
Some build notes are the following:
-Human or Halfling
-Order of the Flame or Dragon
-Pre-racial stats: 14, 16, 14, 10, 10, 14
I have no interest in dipping because reasons.
I Think the slashing grace rute is the Way to go. With a halfling you Will be quite good on to hit getting both dex, size bonus and weapon focus. You wont be online before level 5 but then you wil have level and dex to damage and level again in important figths. I thnk weapon focus is great since you wont be doing all that charging where normal cavaliers get there extra to hit, and it Will help on parry also. Dont go under 10 ( but the stat Line says 8)in str so you Can Carry your own stuff.
Level 6 gets a bonus feat pehaps lunge and iron Will at 7 is properly a good idea.
16 goes to dex 10 to int and str.
Edit: and get that alternate racial trait with luck. Combined with Fates favored it is quite eminent.
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Cap. Darling wrote: I Think the slashing grace rute is the Way to go. With a halfling you Will be quite good on to hit getting both dex, size bonus and weapon focus. You wont be online before level 5 but then you wil have level and dex to damage and level again in important figths. I thnk weapon focus is great since you wont be doing all that charging where normal cavaliers get there extra to hit, and it Will help on parry also. Dont go under 10 ( but the stat Line says 8)in str so you Can Carry your own stuff.
Level 6 gets a bonus feat pehaps lunge and iron Will at 7 is properly a good idea.
16 goes to dex 10 to int and str.
Those stats were in order. 14 is str. 10 is not enough to even wear reasonable armor and carry several weapons.
Some Other Guy wrote: Cap. Darling wrote: I Think the slashing grace rute is the Way to go. With a halfling you Will be quite good on to hit getting both dex, size bonus and weapon focus. You wont be online before level 5 but then you wil have level and dex to damage and level again in important figths. I thnk weapon focus is great since you wont be doing all that charging where normal cavaliers get there extra to hit, and it Will help on parry also. Dont go under 10 ( but the stat Line says 8)in str so you Can Carry your own stuff.
Level 6 gets a bonus feat pehaps lunge and iron Will at 7 is properly a good idea.
16 goes to dex 10 to int and str.
Those stats were in order. 14 is str. 10 is not enough to even wear reasonable armor and carry several weapons. Ok i Think a leather armor and a scimitar is ok with str 8 but 12 is also fine. You May have to spend all your Adaptable Lucks on Will saves.
Some Other Guy wrote:
Those stats were in order. 14 is str. 10 is not enough to even wear reasonable armor and carry several weapons.
Drop the str to 10. The big advantage of Daring Champ/Swashbuckler is the Dex to hit and damage right out of the gate. Thus str is doing nothing for you beyond some skill checks. At 10 str your light load is 33 lbs. A chain shirt (which you want since you'll have a high dex bonus to AC) weighs 25 lbs, and most one-handed weapons weigh 5 pounds. Once you've gotten some gold, you can buy a Handy Haversack to hold everything but your weapons and armor and it will never weigh more than 5 lbs, and you can by a Mithril Shirt for 1,100g which only weighs 10 lbs and a max dex bonus of 6.
If you are starting at a level high enough where you can afford the chain shirt and handy haversack out of the gate, drop str even more to get a better con score. Either way, 14 points in str is a complete waste on the one class who can do dex to hit and damage almost immediately. Dex and Con would both be far more valuable, and there's many ways around the weigh problem.
Str 13.
14's overkill, but you want Power Attack. With Power Attack, your non-Challenge damage is directly competitive with a Fighter or what have you two-handing their weapon with Power Attack. Without it, you fall behind sans Challenge. Turn your Challenge into bonus damage instead of a requirement.
Slashing/Fencing Grace is the way to go early on. However, it's only two feats, plus Power Attack, that leaves you with the majority of your build open. Why not take Order of the Dragon and start building up your Bodyguard route come level six?
Unless you've got other reasons to dislike Halflings or have another Order in mind that seems like the simple solution?
What races are available?
What is the Point Buy?
What books are available?
What is your starting level?
If you go halfling, str isn't needed. Risky striker is just as good as power attack and doesn't hurt accuracy. You can stack piranha strike with it too if you use a light weapon, although that makes dex to damage harder.
Imbicatus wrote: If you go halfling, str isn't needed. Risky striker is just as good as power attack and doesn't hurt accuracy. You can stack piranha strike with it too if you use a light weapon, although that makes dex to damage harder. Effortless Lace could enable Piranha Strike, though I probably wouldn't bother if I had Risky Striker.
Imbicatus wrote: If you go halfling, str isn't needed. Risky striker is just as good as power attack and doesn't hurt accuracy. You can stack piranha strike with it too if you use a light weapon, although that makes dex to damage harder. Enemies have to be two size categories larger than you, so it's not reliable unless you know the campaign is going to be full of large creatures.
Space McMan wrote: Imbicatus wrote: If you go halfling, str isn't needed. Risky striker is just as good as power attack and doesn't hurt accuracy. You can stack piranha strike with it too if you use a light weapon, although that makes dex to damage harder. Enemies have to be two size categories larger than you, so it's not reliable unless you know the campaign is going to be full of large creatures. Or carry handy potions of reduce person.
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@Space McMan: I won't go lower than 13 on strength. I like carrying lots of weapons around plus I want to pick up power attack.
@Blackbloodtroll: Most content is available. Starting level is 2. 25 point buy. I'm fairly set on human or halfling.
Here's how I'd do one, 20 pt buy.
Scabbard of Many Blades helps with carrying lots of different weapons.
As a Human, you could go Phalanx Soldier for 4 level after 2nd, nab Martial Versatility, and finesse a number of Polearms.
You would need to start with a Sibat, but eventually use reach Polearms and Spears, with dex to hit and damage. You could even combine with Combat Reflexes, and own the battlefield.
With the Order of the Flame, charging around with Shield and Spear, you would have a very Spartan feel.
Some Other Guy wrote: @Space McMan: I won't go lower than 13 on strength. I like carrying lots of weapons around plus I want to pick up power attack.
@Blackbloodtroll: Most content is available. Starting level is 2. 25 point buy. I'm fairly set on human or halfling.
If you won't go lower than 13, kill Halfling and, by extension, the Bodyguard build. A 15 before penalties is too much to pay.
If you're willing to go lower for Halfling due to Risky Striker it becomes an option, otherwise you've made your own decision.
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kestral287 wrote: Some Other Guy wrote: @Space McMan: I won't go lower than 13 on strength. I like carrying lots of weapons around plus I want to pick up power attack.
@Blackbloodtroll: Most content is available. Starting level is 2. 25 point buy. I'm fairly set on human or halfling.
If you won't go lower than 13, kill Halfling and, by extension, the Bodyguard build. A 15 before penalties is too much to pay.
If you're willing to go lower for Halfling due to Risky Striker it becomes an option, otherwise you've made your own decision. I'm not sure I like the restrictions on Risky Striker. How many large+ creatures are in Kingmaker?
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
blackbloodtroll wrote: Scabbard of Many Blades helps with carrying lots of different weapons.
As a Human, you could go Phalanx Soldier for 4 level after 2nd, nab Martial Versatility, and finesse a number of Polearms.
You would need to start with a Sibat, but eventually use reach Polearms and Spears, with dex to hit and damage. You could even combine with Combat Reflexes, and own the battlefield.
With the Order of the Flame, charging around with Shield and Spear, you would have a very Spartan feel.
I don't really want to multiclass, especially before getting deeds at level 4.
If you go halfling, there's a pretty easy way to getting your mount back by grabbing a mauler familiar. It only takes 2 feats. Either skill focus+eldritch heritage, or Iron Will+familiar bond.
Also, you get to ride around on all kinds of awesome stuff instead of the usual restricted cavalier list.
Check with your DM if when using lances mounted, you benefit from your Finesse ability. Also, don't forget to grab Chain Challenge.
EDIT:
Okay, question time! This is the racial favored class bonus for halflings:
Add +1/2 to the cavalier's effective class level for the purposes of determining the damage he deals when making an attack of opportunity against a challenged foe.
The way I'm reading it, this improves precise strike damage. Am I correct? Is it worth building around this with trips and other AoO granting features?
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