This is not useful feedback, hence why it is not in the Playtest section.
One of the characters in a game I have joined is playing a Medium, from Occult Adventures. That's neither here nor there. The point is: I downloaded the playtest doc and read through it.
Yikes. Are you kidding me?
I remember the day I first picked up the Advanced Player's Guide, the day I first saw... the Archetypes. I was enamored. Suddenly, there were all these options to substitute for the straight suites of class abilities on the standard classes! Before that, sure, you could pick some options. Bloodlines, Animal Companions, Domains. Heck, you could even decide between a Domain or an Animal Companion! Either way, most choices were permanent. You picked your options and ascended the leveling ladder.
Those heady days are long gone, it seems...
Now, you can choose to remake your character daily. Just pick and choose your desired combination of abilities, bonuses, spells, whatever, cut and paste to character sheet, adventure, rinse, and repeat. A selection from 18 different options, all with ascending suites of powers.... from which, at certain levels, you can mix and match two, three, up to four of at a time. Of course, that isn't enough. To a limited extent, you should be able to drop some option and swap in another during the day, of course.
But, wait... there's more. Eighteen options is just for the playtest. You'll get a full 54 separate suites of powers to choose from, at your convenience, when the full class write-up is released.
"Hold on," you say. "Wizards select new spells everyday, and have since the dawn of time! That's never been a problem."
While that is true, spells are just, concise. Action-->Result (in most cases). This is just different. You get bonuses and abilities that interact and things that affect allies and stuff that adjusts spells and new spell lists and skill bonuses and feats and then... FLOOP!... wipe the slate clean and rebuild all of that.
I can barely imagine playing beside that character, much less DM'ing it (I'm not the DM, just sympathizing). We shall see how it goes, I guess... It seems like a flavorful class, at least.
TL;DR This is just me venting... I like to know what PC's are capable of without reading and re-reading a book's worth of material after every adventuring day. I cannot imagine this being handled easily or correctly over a long run. And it is open to so much potential abuse...
Eh, Medium's not even that strong so no real abuse worrying needed.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I don't mind if my players surprise me. For the most part, non-fullcaster surprises are far less disruptive to game balance. Also, it has a certain organic feel when players randomly excel.
When something bad does happens, I do actually look at things and talk to my players. I just like to give them autonomy on their end.
Beginner's Box offers the simple options.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I really always liked Binders from 3.5's Tome of Magic. Though I haven't read any of the playtest stuff (previous playtests made me realize there was no point in bothering), your description of having vastly different abilities that are swapped out in the place of class features sounds very binder-y.
I haven't actually looked at the OA playtest so maybe there is some reason to freak out about the Medium that I'm not aware of. If there is, though, it doesn't come through in your description.
Nah, there's no reason to freak out. The whole playtest just feels like it's... too much... to me. I wouldn't have even read it, if not for someone playing a Medium in that game.
It's not just the spirits for the Medium. Several of the classes have that type of thing. Implements and phantoms stand out, too. It just feels like it's trying too hard... A sorcerer chooses a bloodline that maybe you're not familiar with, you read it, you know it. But, what if instead, every day he could switch to a new bloodline, and get the lower-end abilities of two or three other bloodlines with it. Then tomorrow he could change the whole thing around. It's sort of that.
Truth is, I've probably just reached my saturation point on new classes with ACG. But, I really am not looking for a class bloat argument. Just venting.
The potential combination of Domains for a cleric is higher.
Granted, most clerics cannot swap out their domains after character creation, but I doubt a given medium is going to benefit equally from all of the spirits that are printed. Right off the bat, a LG one is not going to channel the Chaotic or Evil spirits.
Actually, personal alignment doesn't seem to matter. The spirits channeled have to share an alignment or an attribute. So, you can channel a LG and a CE spirit if they're both Strength spirits. During the playtest, they're ignoring the Law-Chaos axis, though.
|
As currently written, a medium can't really afford to swap out their spirits as much as it appears at first glance.
For instance, there's a spirit that gives you Weapon Finesse. If you're a Finesse build, you are either going to spend your own feat on Weapon Finesse -- and therefore never bother to use that spirit -- or you are going to be using that spirit at all times, as you can't afford to swap it out.
This changes somewhat at higher levels, but my memory is that it was somewhere around level 7 before you could actually afford to start doing that.
This is one of those classes where I expect the final version to be very different from the playtest version -- if only because there will be many more spirits presented in the final version.
I look forward to picking and choosing out of this book what I feel is appropiate for my game, I doubt ill even allows the classes at all, not immediately.
You're the DM, right? Then just tell the player what you're not allowing in your game. If it bothers you this much, have the player remake her character as a simpler class. Perhaps a sorcerer with the Harrower bloodline.
I really always liked Binders from 3.5's Tome of Magic. Though I haven't read any of the playtest stuff (previous playtests made me realize there was no point in bothering), your description of having vastly different abilities that are swapped out in the place of class features sounds very binder-y.
I didn't do the playtest either, but when I read the OP on this thread, I thought of Binders as well. I loved that class, but never got to play it, or see it in play. Most of the souls (Was that what they were called?) didn't seem that powerful, though, and from reading through it, I doubted the Binder could keep up in power level to the other classes. They had a few other abilities, but they didn't seem on par.
Crusader's post has me eager to see the book come out.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Don't worry. Nothing beats a Wizard.My fist disagrees. So would the sodden mass of hamburger meat that used to be a wizurd, if it was still able.
Damn, now I have to walk all the way to where my Clone died to get my revenge!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I really always liked Binders from 3.5's Tome of Magic. Though I haven't read any of the playtest stuff (previous playtests made me realize there was no point in bothering), your description of having vastly different abilities that are swapped out in the place of class features sounds very binder-y.I didn't do the playtest either, but when I read the OP on this thread, I thought of Binders as well. I loved that class, but never got to play it, or see it in play. Most of the souls (Was that what they were called?) didn't seem that powerful, though, and from reading through it, I doubted the Binder could keep up in power level to the other classes. They had a few other abilities, but they didn't seem on par.
Crusader's post has me eager to see the book come out.
The Playtest Guide is still up for download if you want to look it over. I think it's pretty cool (but I love the Harrow deck theme anyway).
|
Yeah, you pick a number of Spirits equal to your Charisma modifier when you make the character and that's all you get until you level up. There is no grab-bagging from the 18 (54 come release) Spirits every morning.
This was a complaint people had during the playtest, and can be solved by reading more carefully.
|
|
Damn, now I have to walk all the way to where my Clone died to get my revenge!Don't worry. Nothing beats a Wizard.My fist disagrees. So would the sodden mass of hamburger meat that used to be a wizurd, if it was still able.
When you have to resort to "Well, my clone isn't dead!", then you aren't winning the argument.
When you have to resort to "Well, my clone isn't dead!", then you aren't winning the argument.Damn, now I have to walk all the way to where my Clone died to get my revenge!Don't worry. Nothing beats a Wizard.My fist disagrees. So would the sodden mass of hamburger meat that used to be a wizurd, if it was still able.
I thought we were playing the "My dad class could beat up your dad class" game?
If it was a serious statement, sorry. Usually those don't start with "I have already won, your move".
When you have to resort to "Well, my clone isn't dead!", then you aren't winning the argument.Damn, now I have to walk all the way to where my Clone died to get my revenge!Don't worry. Nothing beats a Wizard.My fist disagrees. So would the sodden mass of hamburger meat that used to be a wizurd, if it was still able.I thought we were playing the "My
dadclass could beat up yourdadclass" game?If it was a serious statement, sorry. Usually those don't start with "I have already won, your move".
If you were playing that, why not, "don't worry that was my astral self, now the real me can play."
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
When you have to resort to "Well, my clone isn't dead!", then you aren't winning the argument.Damn, now I have to walk all the way to where my Clone died to get my revenge!Don't worry. Nothing beats a Wizard.My fist disagrees. So would the sodden mass of hamburger meat that used to be a wizurd, if it was still able.I thought we were playing the "My
dadclass could beat up yourdadclass" game?If it was a serious statement, sorry. Usually those don't start with "I have already won, your move".
I'm pretty sure all Caster vs. Martial arguments start like this. :P