I've been thinking of adding another way players can customize their characters as they level up. At level 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20, players usually receive a +1 bonus to any ability score. Under this system, a player can forego this bonus to instead select an ability called a "talent."
What sort of power level do you think is appropriate for these talents? I'm not quite sure how much power to make them worth. On the one hand, ability boosts are very powerful options for players as they level up, allowing them to exceed normal limitations for characters of lower levels. On the other hand, there are no feats or abilities that provide similar bonuses besides magic items, so I'm unsure what options to make available in place of these boosts.
One thought was to allow players to switch the ability scores used for certain character features. For example, a talent might allow a player to use Intelligence for his initiative instead of his Dexterity, or let a player use Charisma instead of Wisdom for his will saving throws.
Thoughts?
If you played 3.5, you might have Races of Destiny at hand. Check out the Illumians - some of their racial sigils did similar things, like switching the stat used for spellcasting or saving throw modifiers, adding stat-based bonuses to things, and so forth. That might give you an idea of what that kind of change-around would be worth, by pricing it as a racial ability and comparing accordingly.
I've been thinking of adding another way players can customize their characters as they level up. At level 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20, players usually receive a +1 bonus to any ability score. Under this system, a player can forego this bonus to instead select an ability called a "talent."
What sort of power level do you think is appropriate for these talents? I'm not quite sure how much power to make them worth. On the one hand, ability boosts are very powerful options for players as they level up, allowing them to exceed normal limitations for characters of lower levels. On the other hand, there are no feats or abilities that provide similar bonuses besides magic items, so I'm unsure what options to make available in place of these boosts.
One thought was to allow players to switch the ability scores used for certain character features. For example, a talent might allow a player to use Intelligence for his initiative instead of his Dexterity, or let a player use Charisma instead of Wisdom for his will saving throws.
Thoughts?
OK - so a typical item that grants an enhancement bonus to an ability score is priced as(bonus^2) x 1000gp. There aren't any guidelines for "non-enhancment" bonus to ability score items. HOWEVER, a non-enhancement bonus to AC item costs 2.5 times as much as an enhancement bonus to AC item. Also, level-based ability score increases do not take up any slots, and slotless items are 2x the price of a normal slotted item.
SO at the very least, the ability score increases that come from levels would be equal to 5x(bonus^2)
Now here is the problem - nothing requires that these bonus all go to a single stat. You could spread them out across 5 different stats, in which case the total value of all of the increases was only 25,000 gp.
However if one did apply all the bonuses to a single stat - that would be worth 125,000 gp.
so - in terms of the value each "talent" would have - it could be anywhere between 5,000-25,000 gp each.
Now we look at the range of items currently listed that provide feats - and see what they are valued at:
- Gloves of Arrow Snaring - 2/day used of Snatch Arrows feat (4000 gp)
- Dark Blue Rhomboid Ioun Stone - Alertness (10,000 gp)
- Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (10,000 gp)
- Scarlet and Green Cabochon - Endurance (10,000 gp)
- Wayfinder + Deep red sphere - Improved Unarmed Strike (8,500 gp)
- Wayfinder + Incandescent blue sphere - Blind-Fight (8,500 gp)
- Wayfinder + Opalescent White Pyramid - Weapon Focus (10,500 gp)
- Arrow Deflection Special Property - Deflect Arrows (+2 Bonus, minimum 9,155 gp)
Any feat that is more powerful than these... probably would be to powerful to grant as a substitute talent.
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Best case, a +2 to an ability score is worth 3 spells per day (one high, one mid, one low), an extra skill point per level, and a +1 to various skills. I would put that at about 2 feats for the spells (normally 3, but two are lower level than a feat would grant), 1 for the skill points, and 1 for the +1 to various skills. That's about 4 feats worth and assumes you have a class feature attached. With some other miscelleaneous benefits that aren't worth a feat on their own, that's about 5 feats worth.
A slotless item that grants a feat is often around 10k, so that's about 50k worth for a +2, or 25k for a +1 (though I caution against +1s in general for the same reason that they're not allowed on belts and headbands). This is the same as wish (25k, or 27.5k if you can't cast it).
So, yeah, my answer is +2 to ability scores is worth 5 feats, assuming best possible utilization. If adding bonuses to all scores the value is only somewhat higher (maybe *3 for +1 to all) rather than *6 due to decreased average utilization.
So a "talent", if gained for giving up a +1, should be about as strong as 2.5 average feats.
Maybe look at the "Feats" from 5E and see what doesn't have a Pathfinder overlap, using those as the basis.
If at every even level a character can take a +1 to any one ability, +1 to hit and damage with all weapons(+5 max), +1 deflection bonus to AC, or any one feat, they might go for that feat at character creation.
I'm just trying to make this work with the popular no big 6 (or 8)homebrew movement. Using charisma instead of wisdom on will saves is a feat that many characters take at first level. So is Dex instead of Strength during combat.
Maybe look at the "Creating New Races" section of the PRD, specifically, how different ability score increases and other special racial abilities compare in terms of race point cost. That's designed to give comparisons of how powerful different abilities are for custom-building player races.
The human alternate racial trait that gives you two +2s to two different ability scores instead of one replaces the bonus feat and extra skill point per level.
My opinion is that many of the responses so far vastly overestimate the value of an ability score increase. As far as I can tell, for most characters, the following rule applies:
A +2 increase to your most important ability score is worth slightly less than 2 feat choices.
An important exception might be fighters, for whom feats are really a dime a dozen. But the rule seems to work fairly well for most other characters. As a consequence:
A +1 increase to an ability score is worth slightly less than a feat choice.
In particular, if the next Pathfinder supplement were to have six new feats, each of which granted +1 to an ability score, these wouldn't be "must-have" feats for most characters. In fact, I think they would be relatively unpopular for PC's, on par with Great Fortitude or Lightning Reflexes. They would be marked green in class guides, because they're obviously decent choices, but they would be slightly sub-optimal for most characters.
Note that I'm comparing ability score increases to feat choices, not feats. A top-of-the-line feat like Improved Initiative is about as powerful as a feat choice, but most feats are worth much less than a feat choice to most characters.
Here's an analysis for a few different types of characters:
Barbarian
The most important ability score for a barbarian is Strength. A +2 bonus to Strength has the following benefits:
1. +1 to all melee attack rolls
2. +1.5 to damage (assuming a two-handed weapon)
3. +1 on all Strength-based skill and ability checks, and a slight increase in carrying capacity
Let's analyze this:
#1 is really very comparable to Weapon Focus, which some barbarians take and some don't. So #1 is worth about 1 feat choice.
#2 is worth about 3/4 as much as Weapon Specialization. This feat isn't available to barbarians, but if it were it would be solid but not an obvious choice, so #2 is worth about 3/4 of a feat choice.
#3 is worth at most 10% of a feat choice. To see this, observe that a feat that doubles carrying capacity and adds +10 to all Strength-based skill and ability checks would be decent, but most barbarians probably wouldn't take it.
Adding this together, we see that +2 Strength is worth slightly less than 2 feat choices for most barbarians.
Wizard
The most important ability score for a wizard is Intelligence. A +2 bonus to Intelligence has the following benefits for a typical wizard:
1. +1 to spell save DC's
2. One extra low-level bonus spell
3. +1 to concentration checks
4. +1 to Intelligence-based skill checks
5. 1 extra skill point per level
Note that I'm assuming you don't get a high-level bonus spell from an intelligence increase. If you do, an intelligence bonus becomes much better.
So how much is all of this worth? Let's break it down:
#1 is worth somewhat less than a feat choice. If there were a feat that granted +1 to all spell save DC's, most wizards wouldn't find this worth taking, but a feat that granted +2 to all spell save DC's would be worth it for almost everybody. I estimate #1 to be worth about 75% of a feat choice.
#2 is worth hardly anything. Something like 15% of a feat choice.
#3 is worth maybe 25% of a feat choice, in the sense that a feat that granted +4 to concentration checks would be pretty good.
#4 is worth less than 20% of a feat choice. In my estimation, a feat that granted a +5 bonus to all Intelligence-based skill checks would actually be kind of weak, but some wizards would take it.
#5 is worth maybe 1/3 of a feat choice for a wizard. That is, if there were a feat that granted 3 extra skill points per level, I think that some wizards would take this feat, but not all.
Adding this up, a +2 to Intelligence is again worth slightly less than two feat choices for a wizard.
Conclusion
So my conclusion is that a +1 ability score increase is worth slightly less than a feat choice for most characters. I think it would be fairly balanced to offer a bonus feat in place of a +1 ability score increase, though this might lead to some slightly more powerful characters. So whatever "talents" you'd like to offer, they really shouldn't be more powerful than a single good feat.
Maybe you have a different list of feats than the rest of us. I won't argue overmuch with your assessment of Strength, but your Int assessment is way off.
1 +1 to all spell DCs is 8 instances of Spell Focus. Which is an OK feat for those schools where it matters, mediocre for others.
2 is fairly weak, agreed.
3 is 1/4 of Combat Casting but it applies to all concentration, not just in combat
4 is 1/3 (or 1/6th) of Skill Focus for all 10 Knowledges, Spellcraft, Appraise, Linguistics and Craft, ie 14 skills. Sometimes that's good, sometimes it's junk.
5 is 20 skill points over 20 levels, or 3 x Skill Focus. OTOH, Wizards aren't short of skill points, so this is essentially equivalent to Toughness. It's much better for a dwarf fighter.
I make that a total of 13 feats worth, though many of those feats are weak and you're not getting them as prereqs. But it's certainly 5 over time. Wis and Dex will be similar.
Otherwise, you posit that +2 to a top stat is 2 feats and a trait, so +1 to a stat is 1 feat. Demonstrably false again, especially if the stat starts as an odd number, where it's as good as +2.
Maybe you have a different list of feats than the rest of us. I won't argue overmuch with your assessment of Strength, but your Int assessment is way off.
The trouble with your argument is that "feat" isn't a standard unit of power, since some feats are good and some feats suck for a given character.
The standard unit of power should be "feat choice", i.e. the power of a bonus feat that a character would get to choose. You're giving a character 1 feat choice worth of power if the character would actually choose to take that power as a feat.
1 +1 to all spell DCs is 8 instances of Spell Focus. Which is an OK feat for those schools where it matters, mediocre for others.
This is a good example. You would need 8 instances of Spell Focus to get +1 to all save DC's, but it would be insane for any wizard to spend 8 feat choices on this power. Even if a flat +1 to save DC's were a possible feat, I don't think that many wizards would choose it, since specialist wizards nowadays don't tend to go for Spell Focus. Thus, a flat +1 to save DC's is worth at most 1 feat choice.
3 is 1/4 of Combat Casting but it applies to all concentration, not just in combat
That's true, but the difference is minor. Maybe #3 is worth more like 1/3 of a feat choice, since a flat +3 to concentration checks would be competitive with Combat Casting.
4 is 1/3 (or 1/6th) of Skill Focus for all 10 Knowledges, Spellcraft, Appraise, Linguistics and Craft, ie 14 skills. Sometimes that's good, sometimes it's junk.
Yeah, but nobody wants this. Skill Focus is a very weak feat in general, but especially for wizards. Most wizards would rather have an extra bonus feat than +5 to all Intelligence-based skill checks, so getting a +1 to all Intelligence-based skill checks is worth at most 20% of a bonus feat.
5 is 20 skill points over 20 levels, or 3 x Skill Focus. OTOH, Wizards aren't short of skill points, so this is essentially equivalent to Toughness. It's much better for a dwarf fighter.
I may be underestimating skills here, but my impression is that most wizards would rather have an extra bonus feat than an extra three skill points per level. So one extra skill point per skill level is worth at most 1/3 of a bonus feat.
Otherwise, you posit that +2 to a top stat is 2 feats and a trait, so +1 to a stat is 1 feat. Demonstrably false again, especially if the stat starts as an odd number, where it's as good as +2.
Right, but if a stat is already an even number, then +1 to the stat isn't worth anything. It balances out so that +1 to a stat is, on average, worth about half of +2 to a stat.
I stand by my claim that +1 to an ability score is worth about 1 bonus feat. In fact, I think it would be a reasonably balanced house rule to let characters choose a bonus feat in place of an ability score increase at the appropriate levels (4th, 8th, etc.), or to choose an ability score increase in place of a bonus feat at each odd-numbered level. Under this system, I think most barbarians would opt for feats, wizards would choose a mix of feats and Intelligence increases, and fighters would probably go for ability score increases.
An ability score increase is the gold standard. It's worth roughly the same as a +1 deflection bonus to AC, +1 to hit and damage with all weapons, or a rogue using dex. instead of strength in all combat.
Using charisma instead of wisdom in will saves is strictly silver standard. There are 2 saves it does not affect.
Weapon specialization is strictly copper standard as it effects only one weapon. Longswords are all the same weapon as far as feats are concerned.
Platinum standard feats are rare, and I think many game designers and GMs simply won't tolerate them.