Alright so in a game we play now and then we have a situation ongoing and I wanted to get some input on what I should do.
The reason we only get to play this now and then is the DM lives three hours away and we get to play when he comes into town when off break from school so its been a few weeks since last play but he should be coming back in this week.
Now for the Cliche question.
What do you do with a half-troll baby? What do you do with a Half-Troll/Half-Orc baby?
The characters are currently in a Half-Orc village and we have been brought in to help push back a small tribe of Trolls that have been making attacks on the village. One of our NPCs had a wife attacked and of course she is pregnant when we got there. It was not till last session she admitted to being raped by the chieftain of the Troll Tribe. So now the baby may or may not be a Half-Troll creature.
So what do we do? I mean it is in an established village, the mother will likely survive and if not has family in town. The village could raise the baby but it is a half-troll and might need to be dealt with.
One member of our party is a Half-Orc himself and his background is that he is a local from this village hence why our group was called in.
there is a chance the baby is not a Half-Troll so I OoC don't want to act to soon and risk a pissed off village on our ass for killing one of their kids, including one of our own being ticked.
A secondary question I always had was. I had heard of the Orc Baby morale situation but what I always wondered it.. what if it was a half-orc baby. I mean any of us can play a half-orc and yet I see Goblins and Orcs as example but never Half-Orcs as an example? Is it because they are a playable race and so are not always considered pure evil?
Is it an evil village?
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The human side is supposed to be the good half, so thats why people can play half orcs. Eh what you choose to do with the baby is up to the character.
a) I dunno if troll and human pairings are fertile, so that baby might not be a half troll. Suggest you look for trollish features when its born.
b) if your character believes in redemption truly with their heart and soul, you might want to take a hand in raising the baby to make sure its done right.
c) if you're not that sort, raise hew and cry, claiming that trolls are monsters and that half troll will grow to be a menance to the society, then have the baby executed. I think trolls are meaner then orcs anyway.
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why is it the PC's decision what to do with the baby. are they the vilige chief and or councel? let the tribe take care of it's members acording to their rules. it will be rude of you to take ocntrol and enforce your law on them. (unles you play chaotic characters who don't give a damn about law and then do what your other alignment tell you\good\nutral\evil)
Is it an evil village?
Not that I know of, again one of our PCs is a member of the village who is just out adventuring so he did a bit of Local rolls and so forth to find out if something evil was afoot.
They appear to be a NG Village of Half-Orcs who were being continuously attacked by a tribe of Trolls so we came to help.
The human side is supposed to be the good half, so thats why people can play half orcs. Eh what you choose to do with the baby is up to the character.
a) I dunno if troll and human pairings are fertile, so that baby might not be a half troll. Suggest you look for trollish features when its born.
b) if your character believes in redemption truly with their heart and soul, you might want to take a hand in raising the baby to make sure its done right.
c) if you're not that sort, raise hew and cry, claiming that trolls are monsters and that half troll will grow to be a menance to the society, then have the baby executed. I think trolls are meaner then orcs anyway.
Yeah here is the issue tell me the difference between an orc and a troll? Half-Orcs are already green, some have tusks (Though can't gore) big, strong, etc. Half-Orcs are generally pretty Greenskin like from the start. So Unless we cut the baby and see if it heals but... its a baby using a dagger even by the wizard may kill the baby anyway even if a wand of cure light wounds it on hand.
My Character doesn't want to impose on anyone he is a NG character with leanings toward Lawful. So yeah he might see the baby as well.. a baby who has committed no crime and should not likely be punished for things it did not do.
If we did kill the baby and at least two of our party are saying we should, just to be safe because it is suggested this may be heir to the new tribe of trolls and they will likely keep attacking till the daddy gets the heir back.
why is it the PC's decision what to do with the baby. are they the vilige chief and or councel? let the tribe take care of it's members acording to their rules. it will be rude of you to take ocntrol and enforce your law on them. (unles you play chaotic characters who don't give a damn about law and then do what your other alignment tell you\good\nutral\evil)
Well we just kind of took over for them in this matter of trolls. They are a peaceful village with only a few dozen fighte guards and a two or so low level clerics acting as doctors. We used the NPCs help during the last battles and we managed to kill two of the trolls, our knowledge check confirmed they were trolls and told us how to kill them so we kind of became defacto 'troll hunters' in this village. So the Half-Orc mother is not a high ranking member, she is a average level member herself, her father is the town mayor i think I don't recall it being confirmed but heavily implied.
I know the Half-Orc player is being vocal about not killing the baby till it is born (Meaning don't stab mommy) and waiting to see if it is truly evil. Out of character he has admitted without the Evil subtype a paladin wouldn't be able to tell if the baby was evil with Detect Evil. And killing a neutral aligned creature who has done nothing wrong would be an evil act, killing a baby is a seriously evil act and might cause that Paladin to fall.
So the question is: a baby is being born in a village and it's dad might be a bad guy, should we kill it in its mother's womb?
What does the mother want? Ask, then abide by her wishes.
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Trolls have regeneration. Thats the nasty part. I would not kill the baby in its mothers womb. Ifanyone speaks troll language, and has good diplomacy, you may be able to wraggle something for their heir from the tribe of trolls. Maybe that he will be raised as both a troll and a human, in exchange that he returns to lead the trolls, but the tribe of trolls becomes the village's allies forever.
Orcs are known to delibrately breed and groom half orcs for leadership positions as they are smarter. Would trolls be open to the same idea?
So the question is: a baby is being born in a village and it's dad might be a bad guy, should we kill it in its mother's womb?
That is basically the question. The baby might be a half troll and the son of the troll leader so will just bring more death and pain to the village.
What does the mother want? Ask, then abide by her wishes.
She hates the troll that raped her, but she doesn't want her child killed or given over to the chief troll because she doesn't want him or her raised as a monster.
Trolls have regeneration. Thats the nasty part. I would not kill the baby in its mothers womb. Ifanyone speaks troll language, and has good diplomacy, you may be able to wraggle something for their heir from the tribe of trolls. Maybe that he will be raised as both a troll and a human, in exchange that he returns to lead the trolls, but the tribe of trolls becomes the village's allies forever.
Orcs are known to delibrately breed and groom half orcs for leadership positions as they are smarter. Would trolls be open to the same idea?
They might, we may have to try this. I know about the Half-Orc thing and of course this village would be better suited then most to handle a half-troll orc child.
So the question is: a baby is being born in a village and it's dad might be a bad guy, should we kill it in its mother's womb?That is basically the question. The baby might be a half troll and the son of the troll leader so will just bring more death and pain to the village.
And you need help in answering that question?
And you need help in answering that question?So the question is: a baby is being born in a village and it's dad might be a bad guy, should we kill it in its mother's womb?That is basically the question. The baby might be a half troll and the son of the troll leader so will just bring more death and pain to the village.
Well kinda, I want more to bring to the debate then just "Hey its a baby" for example is there any reason why the baby would be irredeemably evil just for being a half-troll?
I mean a Human Half-Troll could be a Pc as well so what is the difference?
And you need help in answering that question?So the question is: a baby is being born in a village and it's dad might be a bad guy, should we kill it in its mother's womb?That is basically the question. The baby might be a half troll and the son of the troll leader so will just bring more death and pain to the village.
Well kinda, I want more to bring to the debate then just "Hey its a baby" for example is there any reason why the baby would be irredeemably evil just for being a half-troll?
I mean a Human Half-Troll could be a Pc as well so what is the difference?
I don't understand how this is a debate.
I don't understand how this is a debate.And you need help in answering that question?So the question is: a baby is being born in a village and it's dad might be a bad guy, should we kill it in its mother's womb?That is basically the question. The baby might be a half troll and the son of the troll leader so will just bring more death and pain to the village.
Well kinda, I want more to bring to the debate then just "Hey its a baby" for example is there any reason why the baby would be irredeemably evil just for being a half-troll?
I mean a Human Half-Troll could be a Pc as well so what is the difference?
Because some people have a belief that if its in the monster manuel as a monster to be killed and if it has an E in its alignment that you can kill it and nothing bad happens.
Because some people have a belief that if its in the monster manuel as a monster to be killed and if it has an E in its alignment that you can kill it and nothing bad happens.I don't understand how this is a debate.And you need help in answering that question?So the question is: a baby is being born in a village and it's dad might be a bad guy, should we kill it in its mother's womb?That is basically the question. The baby might be a half troll and the son of the troll leader so will just bring more death and pain to the village.
Well kinda, I want more to bring to the debate then just "Hey its a baby" for example is there any reason why the baby would be irredeemably evil just for being a half-troll?
I mean a Human Half-Troll could be a Pc as well so what is the difference?
And that has nothing to do with killing an innocent villager and her baby that might have one bad parent.
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There's quite a lot you can do with a friendly tribe of trolls..all kinds of hard labour is going to be much easier (being stronger then any half orc). The trolls might find having a steady supply of domesticated animals for meals preferable to hunting. I would think trolls have a tribe mentality, and the loss of his heir may also be seen as a sign of weakness on the troll chieftains end, and he may be having a problem ruling over his trolls if he doesn't do something flashy to show his trollhood is not in question. Thus it is likely that both parties will have to come to some kind of middle ground, or its all going to end in tears and blood.
Note this part on troll entry:
Despite their cruelty in combat, trolls are surprisingly tender and kind to their own young. Female trolls work as a group, spending a great deal of time teaching young trolls to hunt and fend for themselves before sending them off to find their own territories.
I agree a tribe of Trolls that are friendly would be a big save.
The Half-Orc player his my brother in law so I have been running ideas by him with the game upcoming.
I am curious how a Troll Character would work in the world, especially if an outsider comes to town and sees this tribe of Trolls working with the Half-Orcs and might cause some trouble.
I will admit I kind of want to play a Troll character with all this research I am doing on them. I have an addictive personality and PF/D&D is a big addiction for me.
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this will end in one of two ways-
mutual agreement and co-ed living of half-orcs and trolls. (considering they are half orcs, possible, though trolls are not known for their intellect, or their niceties.)
or misunderstanding --> men vs monster--> all out war between both tribe and town. In the end, only one would survive. with perhaps, the child dieing in the battle as well.
the happy end is the former, the admittedly more likely and tragic/exciting end is the later.
Half-trolls possess human blood, and possess their human parent's potential for good or evil. It depends on the upbringing. Innate instincts may be a problem, but a half-troll shouldn't be automatically evil.
Which I agree with, and this race would be a half-orc/half-troll so their potential alignment is anything goes same for a human.
I think its going to be roughly 3 to 2 for letting the baby go, but the idea of working to form a treaty might be interesting.
I'd say at the very least keep a careful eye on the kid. Consider referring to Mikaze's thread for feedback on troll rehabilitation.
That is a very interesting read.
Ask the mother what she wants to do and go with that. It is her child.
If she can't leave the village then it seems this is leading to a conflict(combat) with the troll father. He seems to be "not a good guy" so killing him, assuming you are strong enough might be good for the village.
Is this village a community of orcs and trolls, or do the orcs just work for the trolls because they have no choice?
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Oh. Forgot to mention another problem. Both mother and baby may not survive the pregnancy if its really a half troll. Large father, medium sized mother. What would be the size of the baby? Regeneration does not stop you from dying via suffocation.
Id recommend making sure that both a surgeon and a cleric are around to deal with possible birth complications. And also, who the mom would nominate as foster parent, should it come to that.
The Village is Half-Orc. The Trolls moved into the region a year prior. The Trolls have been attacking the area to collect their sheep and the like during the raids and at least once raped one of the half-orc women in town.
The Village is Half-Orc. The Trolls moved into the region a year prior. The Trolls have been attacking the area to collect their sheep and the like during the raids and at least once raped one of the half-orc women in town.
If the orc/half-orc village is willing to keep the kid then let her keep it. I don't think the PC's have the right to do anything to the kid on their own.
The trolls might not accept the kid anyway. They might kill it, and the mom if she tries to hand it over.
We also don't know what a half-troll be will like unless the GM has stats for them in his world. It might not have regeneration. It might not be evil if it is not raised to be evil.
He is likely using this template.
Gives it Fast Healing 5 in that case.
And I agree, my question was more or less to get ammunition to argue that side against the other players who would likely just say kill it and be done.
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Paizo did away with the 'Always Evil' alignments, except for outsiders with a physical link to the Outer Planes, and even they have exceptions.
Nothing about being a troll or half troll forces them to grow up evil, it's mostly a matter of upbringing.
Being brought up in a violent tribe, and having to fight for your share, results in a vicious cycle, that drags savage humanoids toward evil, but if that cycle were broken, they could be anything they want to be.
It might take more work than for a human child, because being bigger than all his peers, feeling little pain, and recovering from any injuries, means they will grow up fearless, not realising their own strength, and more likely to use violence to solve their problems.
But most of that would apply equally to the child of a Good cloud giant, or a half-celestial.
Consider the problems you'd have if you were parents of Herakles, or any of the semi-divine classical heroes.
The community would be well-advised to channel the child's strength and aggression into useful pursuits, so they feel valued, and they'd warn their own offspring not to tease the odd-looking kid, for their own safety.