Splash weapons, water, and swarms


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

If you throw a splash weapon into a square that is water, does it break (thereby causing its normal damage etc.) or just sink harmlessly? What if you are throwing the splash weapon at a swarm that is flying above the water - does the vial break when it hits the swarm or does it just sink when it hits the water, leaving the swarm unharmed?

Grand Lodge

Ask your GM, and shame on you for giving scenario writers evil ideas...

Edit: Unfortunately, this builds on other situations that have been previously asked and are subject to GM discretion, like if you target the swarm w/ alchemist fire (on solid land) does the swarm take full damage or only splash damage since the vial breaks on the ground whether the ground was the target or not (even w/ the +50% AOE damage mod it only takes 1 damage).

I prefer the mechanical way if you hit the AC you made it happen...somehow, and it does full damage (leave it to the GM to describe how it happened). However, I would rule over water a miss wouldn't provoke the grenade style splash damage as the vial didn't break.

Although realism makes the game exciting, it can ruin the fun just as easily and completely make alchemist fire irrelevant vs swarms. Remember that in our world electricity spreads through water but this isn't translated into an AOE shocking grasp underwater in Pathfinder. Keep the rules as simple as possible and let the GM modify the dice rolls by using circumstantial modifiers for the action.

Liberty's Edge

Unfortunately, in this case *I'm* the GM and a scenario writer has already had this evil idea! I'm pretty new at GM-ing (I think this will be my 5th scenario) and I'm prepping the scenario - got to the part about a flying swarm while the party is stuck on a lake and thought, hmm, how's that gonna go down? I'm playing in PFS, so to the extent that there is a rules standard about this (which there may not be), I'd like to apply it. Thanks for your suggestions.

Grand Lodge

Ahhh, that one. I've heard self-immolation to be an effective way of dealing with some of these situations especially if the character in question had DR vs Fire (Tiefling).

Back to your question, I'd let the AF work if there was a believable way to make it happen (like the swarm is inside the area of the boat or next to a stalagmite/stalactite/rock outcropping.

However I'd prefer to simply capsize the boat and let the boat protect me since the "air bubble" inside will still provide buoyancy. I doubt many flying creatures will go underwater.

If you feel the need to not kill your players (hasn't happened to me yet, but I understand it happens to others), you can capsize it yourself as they flail about painfully.

In real life alchemist fire is lighter than water so it burns as it floats. If there is a conceivable way to break it and the swarm is within the 1st square above the water, it will still burn them.

Ex: Swimming character breaks the vial against his shield as he ducks underwater. (He take splash damage from burnt hand / swarm attacking him takes full) Note: He still makes the attack as normal, but this is how I'd describe it happening as it bridges the gap between reality and the rule set.

Good Luck!

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