According to the Core Rulebook FAQ, spell-like abilities satisfy prerequisites for item crafting feats, item creation and prestige class requirements. An SLA does not, however, count as having the spell on a class list for the purpose of activating spell completion and spell trigger items.
Example: A 6th. level Aasimar fighter, named Bob, has a Daylight 1/day SLA. Bob could have taken craft arms and armor at 5th. level. Bob can use his SLA to craft Radiant armor. Bob can qualify for Eldritch Knight because he is "able to cast 3rd.-level arcane spells." Bob cannot, however, activate a wand of Daylight (without use magic device).
I believe that Bob counts as "a creature that can cast arcane spells" and would receive a -4 penalty to his Will save vs. feeblemind. Is that correct?
Thanks!
I certainly hope your supposition follows. If there are extraneous benefits to having SLA's, there should be the appropriate penalties.
Yes Bob the fighter would receive a penalty on his will save because his daylight does count as being able to cast arcane spells.
Move to rules forum I guess?
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Unless campagin management says othewise, I'm not imposing this penalty on those who don't get it for another reason. Fighters have it bad enough when it comes to will saves.
Or we could follow the rules for consistency in PFS play.
Xellrael wrote: According to the Core Rulebook FAQ, spell-like abilities satisfy prerequisites for item crafting feats, item creation and prestige class requirements. An SLA does not, however, count as having the spell on a class list for the purpose of activating spell completion and spell trigger items.
Example: A 6th. level Aasimar fighter, named Bob, has a Daylight 1/day SLA. Bob could have taken craft arms and armor at 5th. level. Bob can use his SLA to craft Radiant armor. Bob can qualify for Eldritch Knight because he is "able to cast 3rd.-level arcane spells." Bob cannot, however, activate a wand of Daylight (without use magic device).
I believe that Bob counts as "a creature that can cast arcane spells" and would receive a -4 penalty to his Will save vs. feeblemind. Is that correct?
Thanks!
I think you're wrong. Bob can't cast third level spells, or any spells at all, so he doesn't qualify for Eldritch Knight. However, he would satisfy a prerequisite that specifically required casting Daylight.
3.5 went into great lengths on this after Warlocks and DFAs came out, my reading of the Core faq is that it's intended to work the same way.
Since casting arcane spells dne having spell-like abilities, I'd say the penalty shouldn't apply.
HorrorshowJack wrote:
I think you're wrong. Bob can't cast third level spells, or any spells at all, so he doesn't qualify for Eldritch Knight. However, he would satisfy a prerequisite that specifically required casting Daylight.
3.5 went into great lengths on this after Warlocks and DFAs came out, my reading of the Core faq is that it's intended to work the same way.
Since casting arcane spells dne having spell-like abilities, I'd say the penalty shouldn't apply.
You are incorrect. I assume you are reading from this:
Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?
Yes.
For example, the Dimensional Agility feat (Ultimate Combat) has "ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door" as a prerequisite; a barghest has dimension door as a spell-like ability, so the barghest meets the "able to cast dimension door prerequisite for that feat.
Edit 7/12/13: The design team is aware that the above answer means that certain races can gain access to some spellcaster prestige classes earlier than the default minimum (character level 6).
Without reading this:
Prestige Class Requirements: If a prestige class requires 5 ranks in a skill and I have 6 ranks in that skill, do I still meet the requirements?
Yes, because skill ranks are inclusive: if you have 6 ranks in a skill, then you have 5 ranks in that skill, and therefore meet the "have 5 ranks in [this] skill" requirement.
In the same way, if you have a BAB of +6, then you have a BAB of +5, and therefore meet the "have BAB +5" requirement.
In the same way, if you have Str 15, then you have Str 13, and therefore meet the "Str 13" feat prerequisite for Power Attack.
However, spellcasting ability is not inclusive: it is possible (mainly through the use of spell-like abilities) to be able to cast 3rd-level spells but not 2nd-level spells. If you can only cast 3rd-level spells, that does not meet the requirement of "able to cast 2nd-level spells."
The second FAQ explicitly states you are able to cast x-level spells via spell-like abilities, so the fighter CAN qualify for eldritch knight.
Blakmane wrote: HorrorshowJack wrote:
I think you're wrong. Bob can't cast third level spells, or any spells at all, so he doesn't qualify for Eldritch Knight. However, he would satisfy a prerequisite that specifically required casting Daylight.
3.5 went into great lengths on this after Warlocks and DFAs came out, my reading of the Core faq is that it's intended to work the same way.
Since casting arcane spells dne having spell-like abilities, I'd say the penalty shouldn't apply.
You are incorrect. I assume you are reading from this:
Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?
Yes.
For example, the Dimensional Agility feat (Ultimate Combat) has "ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door" as a prerequisite; a barghest has dimension door as a spell-like ability, so the barghest meets the "able to cast dimension door prerequisite for that feat.
Edit 7/12/13: The design team is aware that the above answer means that certain races can gain access to some spellcaster prestige classes earlier than the default minimum (character level 6).
Without reading this:
Prestige Class Requirements: If a prestige class requires 5 ranks in a skill and I have 6 ranks in that skill, do I still meet the requirements?
Yes, because skill ranks are inclusive: if you have 6 ranks in a skill, then you have 5 ranks in that skill, and therefore meet the "have 5 ranks in [this] skill" requirement.
In the same way, if you have a BAB of +6, then you have a BAB of +5, and therefore meet the "have BAB +5" requirement.
In the same way, if you have Str 15, then you have Str 13, and therefore meet the "Str 13" feat prerequisite for Power Attack.
However, spellcasting ability is not inclusive: it is possible (mainly through the use of spell-like abilities) to be able to cast 3rd-level spells but... Yeah I haven't seen that second part before. Don't think it makes a lot of sense either.
Blakmane wrote:
You are incorrect. I assume you are reading from this:
Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?
Yes.
For example, the Dimensional Agility feat (Ultimate Combat) has "ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door" as a prerequisite; a barghest has dimension door as a spell-like ability, so the barghest meets the "able to cast dimension door prerequisite for that feat.
Edit 7/12/13: The design team is aware that the above answer means that certain races can gain access to some spellcaster prestige classes earlier than the default minimum (character level 6).
It seems the Devs have noticed this, because if you check the FAQ now.
Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?
Only if the pre-requisite calls out the name of a spell explicitly. For instance, the Dimensional Agility feat (Ultimate Combat) has "ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door" as a prerequisite; a barghest has dimension door as a spell-like ability, so the barghest meets the "able to cast dimension door prerequisite for that feat. However, the barghest's dimension door would not meet requirements such as "Ability to cast 4th level spells" or "Ability to cast arcane spells".
and
Item Creation Feats: Does having a caster level from a spell-like ability meet the caster level prerequisite for selecting an item creation feat?
No.
He still counts.
Quote: Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?
Only if the pre-requisite calls out the name of a spell explicitly.
A character with daylight still has the ability to cast an arcane spell but now he can use it to qualify for less feats and classes. It isn't suddenly not an arcane spell.
While daylight is suddenly not an arcane spell, the FAQ now explicitly states, "However, the barghest's dimension door would not meet requirements such as "Ability to cast 4th level spells" or "Ability to cast arcane spells."
Feeblemind's penalty says it affects "A creature that can cast arcane spells." I would say this is synonymous with "ability to cast arcane spells." Thus while a dimension door SLA counts as an arcane spell for effects that call out dimension door explicitly, it would not make the barghest an arcane spellcaster.
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