Is it legal to apply twice the Young template ?


Rules Questions


Hello, I want to know if it's possible to apply the same template twice on a monster...
I want to create a small creature from a large monster.
The simplest way I see is this one, to apply twice the Young template...

Is it possible ?


Monster design is within the DM's purview and as such, there are not really any hard rules. Sure, you can do it if you want. I'm not sure I'd recommend it though, but I don't know what monster you're looking at and what you plan to use it for. I would see if there are any other options first - perhaps another monster that you could only apply the young template to a single time, etc. But if you can't find what you want, then go for it.

Scarab Sages

mekka2000 wrote:

Hello, I want to know if it's possible to apply the same template twice on a monster...

I want to create a small creature from a large monster.
The simplest way I see is this one, to apply twice the Young template...

Is it possible ?

Are you trying to make the monster smaller or younger?

Young template is for younger versions. Twice applied would be a baby or toddler version.

Beyond reduce person type spells, easiest way would be to just lower the size category as the DM.

Do you have an example of what creature you are trying to make smaller?


I play in a systemless setting (www.khoras.net) and the desert drake here has a 1.5 meter wingspan and weights about 20 kilograms.
So, for me, it's a small creature and I think it'll be ok to apply twice the Young template to the Large desert drake from Bestiary 3


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

yes, but the effects don;t stack because they're from the same source...

if you're the GM who the f&+! cares, just do it.

Scarab Sages

mekka2000 wrote:

I play in a systemless setting (www.khoras.net) and the desert drake here has a 1.5 meter wingspan and weights about 20 kilograms.

So, for me, it's a small creature and I think it'll be ok to apply twice the Young template to the Large desert drake from Bestiary 3

Looked up your critter. Say's it's of the dragon creature type.

From the Young Template:

"Creatures with the young template are immature specimens of the base creature. You can also use this simple template to easily create a smaller variant of a monster. This template cannot be applied to creatures that increase in power through aging or feeding (such as dragons or barghests) or creatures that are Fine-sized."


Ok, so I won't apply twice the template but will create a new monster with the same stats as the desert drake, except with Small as Size, and
Natural armor of +6 instead of +10, a bite attack of 2d3+3, a tail slap of 1d4+9, STR 14, CON 13, and DEX 23.
But it won't be a template applied twice, just another creature designed by me :D

Scarab Sages

The Forrest Dragon Wyrmling is pretty close to your desert drake, but small size. Start there, perhaps?

Grand Lodge

mekka2000 wrote:

Hello, I want to know if it's possible to apply the same template twice on a monster...

I want to create a small creature from a large monster.
The simplest way I see is this one, to apply twice the Young template...

Is it possible ?

If you're the DM, legal is what you decide it to be. Kind of like the way the governor of NJ decided that it was legal for the governor of NJ to receive favors from foreign nationals.

If you're not the DM, ask your DM.


Yeah, why not? It's not like your players would know that you did that. A creature with a young template doesn't necessarily have to be young, that's just fluff.

Giving something the same template multiple times isn't really breaking rules.


If you are the GM you can do whatever you want, but most templates are intended to only be applied once.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As long as your not trying to cheese the system (say, by applying the template to a creature with spell-like abilities at a fixed caster level, rather than CL based on HD), you should be good to go.

I'd recommend checking the results against the monster design tables, just to be safe.

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