|
I want an Imp as Cohort/Familiar/Companion for my Aasimar Evangelist Cleric of Asmodeus (Way of the Wicked campaign) and I think my best bet would be the Diabolist Prestige Class. Now the way it's written is kinda confusing to me.
"Class Level
This is the diabolist's class level plus her highest caster level. This does not stack with class levels that grant an animal companion."
Does this mean that a Cleric 5/Diabolist 8 would have a caster level of 13+ a Diabolist level of 8 resulting in a "effective class level of 21 at level 13? Because that would seem a bit broken, or at least much better than a standard animal companion. It wouldn't be that good for levels 14 and higher though as the Imp will quickly reach max level.
As a sidenote, I'll be using a scroll to cast Lesser Planar Ally, and I probably won't take more than 1 level in it anyway. It's just that the wording has me and my GM wondering.
It is generally considered to be an erratum. The imp is good enough using your diabolist levels plus your previous casting class levels. Don't add diabolist levels twice, it's cheesy and might lead to big rocks falling on your head.
|
|
That's what we thought.
On to the next question.
Starting Statistics: Size Tiny; Speed 20 ft., fly 50 ft. (perfect); aC +1 natural armor; attack sting (1d4 plus poison); ability Scores Str 8, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 14; Special attacks poison (Frequency 1/round for 5 minutes, Effect 1d2 Dex, Cure 1 save, Con-based DC); languages Celestial, Draconic, Infernal; Special Qualities spell-like abilities (CL 6th), constant—detect good, detect magic, 1/day—suggestion.
4th-level advancement: ability Scores Str +2, Dex +2; Special Qualities one alternate form (beast shape I, boar, rat, or raven, or beast shape III, young giant spider); spell- like abilities (CL 6th), at will—invisibility (self only), 1/day— suggestion; spell-like ability (CL 12th), 1/week—commune.
Another mistake perhaps. The imp companion gains suggestion 1/day twice? I'm sure one of those must be augury.
And another one. It's alternate form doesn't specifically say it's a shapechange ability. Does that mean that this imp isn't limited to small creatures, but can also take the form of say, a medium sized boar?
Without having looked at the imp in a lot of detail, but having perused the page on it and animal companions on d20pfsrd.com, here is my initial take:
1) an imp starts with suggestion 1/day.
2) 'at 4th level' it gains another use of suggestion per day - whether this is another mistake is unclear. If you/your GM want, it could be switched for a different SLA.
However, since your level for this purpose is 'diabolist+previous caster level', and you must be at least 6th level (5 plus 1st diabolist), your starting imp should be adjusted to have this advancement as soon as you get it.
3) the alternate forms are specifically taken as if using the Beast Form I, II, or III spells - but with the limitations listed, so it can only take 'tiny, small, or medium animals' (no huge, large, or even any magical beasts, etc). Read the Beast Shape spells to see what is worth taking, what the benefits are, etc.
4) Curse Water is probably a good choice for an early SLA - obviating the cost of making Unholy Water, stockpiling it for later use, etc. It could also be used as the material component for Infernal Healing spells instead of the imp's blood...of course, you're probably going to bleed the little sucker a bit every day anyway (Obedience to Asmodeus requirement made easy).
|
|
2) Well a normal Imp gets Suggestion and Augury 1/day. I'd assume if it would get Suggestion 2/day it would say "2/day—suggestion" not "1/day— suggestion, suggestion". I'd say it has to be Augury.
3) Yeah, but the standard Imp has the shapechange ability, which is much more limited.
5) Here we go again:
"BAB
This is the imp's base attack bonus. Imps do not gain additional attacks using their natural weapons for a high base attack bonus."
Shouldn't this say something about Imps having a base attack bonus equal to their number of hit dice?
I'm starting to think this is the worst edited class feature ever.
I'm starting to think this is the worst edited class feature ever.
Nope. Not even the 3rd worst.
See double barrelled guns, the mymidarch (Magus archetype) and the spellslinger (wizard archetype) none of which work properly and are far more confusing than this.
Talk to your GM. Come up with something you're both happy with. Then post it here for the rest of us to see.
My group is about to start Way of the Wicked. I'm having to play a cleric (necromancer) and my wizard-diabolist will be my cohort so whatever you decide would be useful to see.
|
|
You have to play a necromancer cleric? What are the other players gonna play?
My group has an Aasimar Cleric with the Evangelist archetype and the fire domain (my character), a Gnome Sorcerer with an Infernal bloodline acting all chaotic, a Human Ranger focusing on two-handed weapons and a Human Summoner with Cerberus as his Eidolon.
But if it were up to me, I would have build an entire party myself...
|
I want an Imp as Cohort/Familiar/Companion for my Aasimar Evangelist Cleric of Asmodeus (Way of the Wicked campaign) and I think my best bet would be the Diabolist Prestige Class. Now the way it's written is kinda confusing to me.
"Class Level
This is the diabolist's class level plus her highest caster level. This does not stack with class levels that grant an animal companion."
Does this mean that a Cleric 5/Diabolist 8 would have a caster level of 13+ a Diabolist level of 8 resulting in a "effective class level of 21 at level 13? Because that would seem a bit broken, or at least much better than a standard animal companion. It wouldn't be that good for levels 14 and higher though as the Imp will quickly reach max level.
As a sidenote, I'll be using a scroll to cast Lesser Planar Ally, and I probably won't take more than 1 level in it anyway. It's just that the wording has me and my GM wondering.
It is notable that if the cleric has the animal or scalykind domain, and the pet that is obtained via that, the class levels don't stack, so you'd just have an 8th level imp.
As for the imp, it really is an oddball companion. The tiny size makes it both unique and difficult to use as a traditional combat pet.
DM should note that the imp companion is "ultimately loyal to Hell" as per the diabolist class ability, so seizing your imp as an NPC at certain key points in a campaign would be reasonable (DM should be able to justify this as being the interests of Hell overriding the interests of the diabolist).
The other big notable feature of the Imp companion is that unlike an animal companion, it is both very intelligent (for a companion class feature) and comes with a fixed alignment. It is Lawful Evil and should be role played as such. This can be a challenge, as the class itself does not require a lawful evil PC (Lawful neutral or neutral evil permitted).
Party balance, we needed some sort of divine caster. And we already had a Sorceror so my wizard wasn't quite so critical. I looked into playing a Samsaran to get various divine spells from the witch, and even the alchemist lists but it would have meant my diabolist not being 'himself' so I decided he could be the cohort instead.
I'm currently trying to decide if I'll take levels of Evangelist (prestige class) or not.
Since our GM is using the guild rules, I'll be able to take up to 3 levels of something else and still get full casting. So, 2 levels of inquisitor gets me wisdom onto initiative. However, one level of sacred fist (warpriest archetype) would make our survival at 1st level more likely but also means that taking Evangelist will delay my spellcasting until 13th level when we get the second bonus and prevent taking inquisitor at all, but leaves the possibility of taking one level of almost anything else.
|
|
5) Here we go again:
"BABThis is the imp's base attack bonus. Imps do not gain additional attacks using their natural weapons for a high base attack bonus."
Shouldn't this say something about Imps having a base attack bonus equal to their number of hit dice?I'm starting to think this is the worst edited class feature ever.
They do not get the outsider BAB because there is no special note expempting them from this. They get the animal companion BAB. The D10s are an exception to this.
It is very noteworthy that the Imp Companion is not actually an outsider, but remains an "Animal" companion. This is because there is no wording within the text to suggest that the Imp companion isn't treated as an animal. It specifically refers you to the animal companion rules with the exceptions as noted. I am looking at the physical text while typing this.
All in all, the class is very well worded, but it leads players to assume features which just aren't actually part of the class. The "outsider" aspect of the Imp is implied by the d10s, but only implied.
As far as companions go, the Imp functions more like an additional familiar than as a companion pet due to it's many limitations.
Party balance, we needed some sort of divine caster. And we already had a Sorceror so my wizard wasn't quite so critical. I looked into playing a Samsaran to get various divine spells from the witch, and even the alchemist lists but it would have meant my diabolist not being 'himself' so I decided he could be the cohort instead.
I'm currently trying to decide if I'll take levels of Evangelist (prestige class) or not.
Since our GM is using the guild rules, I'll be able to take up to 3 levels of something else and still get full casting. So, 2 levels of inquisitor gets me wisdom onto initiative. However, one level of sacred fist (warpriest archetype) would make our survival at 1st level more likely but also means that taking Evangelist will delay my spellcasting until 13th level when we get the second bonus and prevent taking inquisitor at all, but leaves the possibility of taking one level of almost anything else.
Deific Obedience required for that one. Can be a nasty one to upkeep. Especially nasty if combined with an effect that renders your PC out of commission for more than a day (like flesh to stone, in example).
may i advice you to look at the tiefling cleric Fiendish Vessel archtype?
at level 3 he get ether an imp\cocadaemon\quasit depand on his alignment and he get to use channale evil (heal evil and damage good which is very good for a campiagn that some of the players\help might be alive and some undead.
also note that if you pick daemon(NE) and not devil(LE) you retain the main evil domain touch attack which make the target count as good - then you chananle evil and deal damage to even nutral mobs.(also you get a cocadaemon who can a/day turn a dead enemy soul into soul gem -good for crafting stuff\spell costly materials)
as a side note. familiers are not animal or what ever other compamnian and do not gain any companian abilities. this has been talk over and over before.
|
|
3 feats, but the easiest route: Skill focus(any knowledge), Eldrich Heritage(Arcane), and Improved Familiar.
Get your Imp that way without needing a new class. Does need 13 CHA, but you probably already have that as a cleric (CHA affects channels per day).
Could also take a level in any class that grants a familiar, then add improved familiar.
Diabolist is for a very specific type of PC. Suggest against it unless all the class abilities are exactly what you intend to focus on (Ideal is a CHA based caster focused on summoning devils via planar binding).
I will note with the diabolist that the minimum level requirement for that class is actually around 7th or 8th, as one of requirements is to be able to cast lesser planar binding/ally (4th level spells). I highly recommend the DM requiring the player to be able to cast the spell (or as a spell like ability via the summoner class)
If casting via a scroll, do note that the requirement isn't merely to cast the spell, but to cast the spell AND convince a devil to do preform a task longer than a day. This may require more than a single casting, which would require multiple scrolls. The scrolls themselves are very expensive. Convincing devils to preform tasks also has a monetary cost related to casting the spell.
For more info:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/scrolls
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/planar-ally
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/planar-binding
As a cleric, lesser planar ally is the divine version. You'd need a caster level 2 scroll, minimum, as tasks have a max limit of 1 day per caster level, though this isn't much an issue as the minimum caster level for the scroll is 7th. Base scroll would cost 700gp. The Spell has 500gp of material component, which must be included in the scroll cost, so that makes them 1,200gp per scroll.
As a 5th level cleric, you'd need a DC 8 caster level check as you are activating a scroll of higher caster level. Failing this is a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap via the scroll (not an issue for a cleric, but a nat 1 still fails and failure expends the scroll with other side effects).
You'd then need to convince them to perform a task longer than a day. As per the spell, this would cost at least 500gp per HD on the summoned creature for a non-hazardous task. This is in addition to the existing 1200gp for the scroll. That's 1700gp if all goes well, which is a tough one for a 5th level PC.
As a final note, the act of using either lesser planar binding or lesser planar ally to cast a spell as per the alignment of the creature summoned. So a devil would require a lawful evil spell to be cast. As a cleric, your deity's alignment cannot be opposed to either law or evil for you the cleric to cast this spell. This means that a Lawful Neutral cleric of Torag cannot be a diabolist (I suppose you could multi-class into another caster which can cast without alignment restriction and then cast it).
On a side note, this is like my favorite class and why I know so much about it.
As a cleric, Diabolist really doesn't gain you enough. Planar ally doesn't require CHA checks to preform services, so the infernal charisma ability adds nothing. The alignment restrictions on the cleric really mess with this class too. That Damned rule can be pretty restrictive too. The classes for this are the Wizard, Sorcerer, arcanist, Planar Summoner and, maybe, the oracle or witch or inquisitor. Cleric really doesn't benefit from this class and his domain powers suffer with each level you add from this class.