Penalties when attacking with a Shield

[Dhá Sciath]

I know that when I attack with a shield there are only the usual penalties, but my GM caused a bit of confusion, saying I've missed -2 to my attacks, and we can't communicate what it's from.

I'm making a Shield Bash with a Spiked Shield of Bashing, which I thought was just a normal attack, but now I'm not so sure. Is it just a normal attack, or something else? If I'm wielding two of them, is there any other penalty beyond TWF and the other usual suspects?

[Nefreet]

Is the shield Light or Heavy?

[Dhá Sciath]

Heavy Shield

[Chess Pwn]

Other than TWF penalties no, there's no penalties inherent to attacking with shields.

[Fergie]

I think the confusion may be due to some language left in the rules about shield bashing being an "offhand attack". Shield bashing is only "offhand" if you are attacking with a different weapon in your hand that has been designated your primary attack.

For example Level 1 fighter (+1 BAB) 18 strength (+4)
Longsword attack str + BAB = +5, dam 1d8+4
OR
Light Shield bash attack str + BAB = +5, dam 1d3+4

Now if you fight with both, one OR the other needs to be primary, the other "offhand". Assuming you have the 2WF feat, it could look like this:
Longsword attack str + BAB - 2WF = +3, dam 1d8+4
AND
Light Shield bash attack str + BAB -2wf = +3, dam 1d3+2

or, if you use the shield as the primary attack, AND the sword (which is NOT a light weapon) as an offhand attack, your attacks would look like this:
Light Shield bash attack str + BAB -4wf = +1, dam 1d3+4
AND
attack str + BAB - 2WF = +1, dam 1d8+2

EDIT: If you are using a Heavy Shield, you probably want that as your primary attack, and then a light weapon (Short Sword) in your offhand, otherwise you get nasty 2WF penalties (-4 to each attack, instead of -2.)

[Dhá Sciath]

I picked up Shield Mastery, so I was a little confused when they were telling me that I only "ignored the -2", but I still can't figure out what they were referring to. They must have thought I had only -2 from TWF, but with two Heavy Weapons it's -4. I'll try to clear it up tomorrow.

[Kaouse]

If you have Shield Mastery and are dual wielding Shields, then you don't suffer any TWF penalties, with or without the TWF feat (though as a prereq to Improved and Greater TWF, I assume you have it anyway).

Shield Mastery lets you ignore the penalty, it doesn't reduce the penalty. That seems to be the point of contention.

It's a pretty powerful feat for what it does, and many arguments have been had over it.

[illyume]

Kaouse wrote:

If you have Shield Mastery and are dual wielding Shields, then you don't suffer any TWF penalties, with or without the TWF feat (though as a prereq to Improved and Greater TWF, I assume you have it anyway).

Unless you're a ranger (or slayer) with the (sword and) shield combat style, and you're taking it at level 6 with no prerequisite.

In which case, you're two weapon fighting (though with only one attack on the off-hand) with no feat or dex pre-requisite, and you're getting weapon enchantments at essentially half-off.

[blackbloodtroll]

A shield is a weapon.

It functions as a weapon, and can be used to attack like a weapon, receives bonuses and penalties like a weapon, as it is a weapon.

You can even two hand a Shield, like other weapons.