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So I'm GMing a group where the party oracle took Divination as a known spell.
They just finished retaking Fort Rannick. Kaven the traitor of the Black Arrows got away, but they killed Lucrecia and all the ogres. Their top priority seems to be tracking down Kaven, and they've got clues that will lead them to Commander Bayden's fae lover, but they seem to think they should have more leads about who Lucrecia serves. They got the name Mokmurian from her, but that's all they know, not where to find him or who he is or anything.
So I'm expecting some Divination castings, and I want to be prepared with intelligent (and rhyming!) answers.
Here's what I've got so far:
1. If they ask about Kaven (where he's going, who does he serve):
No master served, Lucrecia dead,
he flees south to save his head.
2. As I mentioned in another thread, they seem to think the Brothers of the Seven are more crucial than they are. They don't realize that they already killed that entire group in their sawmill in Magnimar. So I would expect at least one question about them. Given that they didn't get my vague hint about them being "gone" in an earlier divination answer, I figured I'd be more explicit this time:
Brothers of the Seven are all dead,
in their sawmill, lost their heads.
For Father Skinsaw, they did their murderous deeds,
'til Xanesha used them, for her master's needs.
3. They found Bayden's love letters, and no sign of him in the fort itself. Plus, they heard rumors in Turtleback Ferry that he was seen heading into the woods where the fairies live. So they might ask about him, and here's what I'm thinking as a response to that, though I'm thinking this answer might be a little too detailed:
Good Commander Bayden,
ice upon his head,
lives on inside Hook Mountain,
though he's already dead.
4. And if they just ask a general "What should we do next?" type of question:
Go south to Turtleback Ferry,
a village doomed to flood,
save them from a watery grave,
before the town sinks in the mud.
Any other thoughts? I'm trying to think of what other subjects they're likely to ask about at this point. And after the flood scene in Turtleback Ferry, they're likely to try another Divination for info on Skull's Crossing, so I'll have to come up with something for that.
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And after all that, they didn't cast Divination in tonight's session.
They chased down Kaven using ranger tracking skills, and accidentally killed him too quickly, so they didn't get a chance to interrogate him. They consider that a lost opportunity, but he didn't know anything.
Then they went back to Turtleback Ferry, and the flood happened. The snake was no problem, but Black Maga scared the crap out of them. They all failed their will saves vs the breath weapon, so they were all confused. She managed to grapple three party members and knock them down to low enough HP to scare them all, but not knock anyone out. The flame oracle managed to fireball her for a little damage during a round when he was able to act normally despite the confusion, and the paladin got a crit on his attack of opportunity with a magic cold iron longsword as she was fleeing. So they did a total of 30 HP damage to her and considered themselves lucky to not have any more deaths.
The mayor asked them to check out Skull Crossing, so that will be our next session.
So my first and fourth poems, above, will never get used. The second and third could still happen, though.
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So I probably should have asked this sooner: Any suggestions for how to respond to questions about why the flooding's happening? I'm trying to come up with good rhymes that gives a little useful information without being too informative.
I've got these two possibilities:
Magic of Hook Mountain hags brings extra rain to drown
Those rune-marked souls who live below, in the lakeside town.
Magic of Hook Mountain hags makes extra rain fall down,
Aiming for the rune-marked skins of half the lakeside town.
Those greedy souls fuel master’s power should they all be drowned.
I think the first one sounds better, but the second gives more information. But I also don't want to give too much information up front. Either one would lead them to Hook Mountain.
I'm also wondering if I should reference the ogres trying to destroy Skull's Crossing in there somewhere. For that matter, the fact that Skull's Crossing isn't functioning should probably be hinted at. And they might ask about Skull's Crossing specifically, which would require a different rhyme.
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Hmm... just came up with one about why Skull's Crossing isn't working, though I think maybe I should also mention the ogres attacking the dam, too. And why Black Magga fell through and ended up in Turtleback Ferry, but perhaps that deserves its own rhyme.
Skull’s Crossing’s ancient magic
Controlled the flow of water’s fall,
But with the death of captured fiend,
It no longer works at all.
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Oh, they're into using it. They were just in a rush to track Kaven before he got too far last time. In fact, in our emails since, the guy playing the oracle has already said the he wants to use Divination next session to ask where Kaven was going. So the word "flees" will become "fled" in the answer about Kaven from the first post in this thread.
So I've been playing around with some rhymes while posting all this, fixing up some from the earlier posts, and here's what I've got for the flooding questions:
Why is this flooding happening?
Ancient magic fails,
While new magic succeeds,
The dam doesn’t stop the flow
Of rain brought by evil deeds.
Why is the dam at Skull's Crossing not working?
Skull’s Crossing’s ancient magic
Controlled the flow of water’s fall,
But since the death of captured fiend,
It no longer works at all.
Why is there so much extra rain? (still not sure which I prefer)
Magic of Hook Mountain hags brings extra rain to drown
Those rune-marked souls who live below, in the lakeside town.
Magic of Hook Mountain hags makes extra rain fall down,
Aiming for the rune-marked skins, below in lakeside town.
Greedy souls fuel runewell’s power, should they all be drowned.
I prefer my divinations more cryptic.
Hook-wrought rain abuses
Diabolic sluices,
In prehistoric wall:
A Storval waterfall.
Then crossing skulls come down,
On chelonian-spined town
Greed-soaked souls to fell
Replenishing the well.
Giant stones and evil crones
On crooked mountain cry
For star-stained vice, the sacrifice
To open avaricious eye.
That would also make a pretty sweet Alice in Chains song:-)
How you word these depends on how much you care if they skip the Shimmerglens. If you do put explicit references to Hook Mountain in either the rain divination or the Lamatar divination, they're likely to head straight there without an opportunity to interact with Myriana first.
Better fix that, then.
Murdered beauty beyond sight
Raging love for frozen wight
Shattered willows, drowned in tears
Shimmer in these fetid meres.
If you make them too cryptic, the players won't get them at all. Remember that you have a lot of background knowledge inside your head that the players (probably) don't; if it seems cryptic to you it will probably totally baffle the players and they will quit trying stuff like this.
Remember: divination spells are the GM's tool to make sure the plot stays on the rails. You want them to follow the clues to the next adventure.
Just don't make it too easy:
"Five-ten is your height,
One-sixty your weight,
You cash in your chips
'Round page eighty-eight."
A lot of it depends on the players. Some like picking things apart, others just want a big sign saying "Adventure 5 miles ->". But the cryptic ones give you a better payoff when they work out just what it actually meant.
Why is this flooding happening?
Ancient magic fails,
While new magic succeeds,
The dam doesn’t stop the flow
Of rain brought by evil deeds.
A note here:
The village *expects* flooding with the rain - however it is supposed to be a slow and controlled flood (the adventure doesn't make this very clear) - what happened was the ogres broke the dam an instead of a controlled flood they got a 'whoosh' due to the break.
Waters rise faster now
The skull faced rock can tell you how
The evil one lies alone
where once company filled his home
Why is the dam at Skull's Crossing not working?
Skull’s Crossing’s ancient magic
Controlled the flow of water’s fall,
But since the death of captured fiend,
It no longer works at all.
See above :)
Why is there so much extra rain? (still not sure which I prefer)
Magic of Hook Mountain hags brings extra rain to drown
Those rune-marked souls who live below, in the lakeside town.
Wicked ones they be
those that dabble count of threethey serve the master of the hook
who in turn serves one who uses the forbidden book!
This gives some clues and also a hint as to the next big bad...
For the end:
Is Sandpoint in danger?
Ware the coming of the tribe
they seek answers that towns hide
fire and misery rue they day
should the heroes stay away
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A lot of it depends on the players. Some like picking things apart, others just want a big sign saying "Adventure 5 miles ->". But the cryptic ones give you a better payoff when they work out just what it actually meant.
I like keeping it a little mysterious, but the spell description specifically says answers will be "useful", so there has to be something they can actually use, not just vague, cryptic hints.
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Given that my group is playing tomorrow, I need to get back to work on coming up with new Divination answers.
So they asked a different question than I was expecting last time - they suspected Skull's Crossing's dam wasn't working, so they asked specifically about what they'd need to fix it, which is incredibly smart, but I wasn't prepared for it. I made something up about life being drained in the magic circle to power the dam, which was informative, yet cryptic enough to scare them.
Ironically, they took some of the ogres at Skull's Crossing alive, and they found out through interrogation that they came from Hook Mountain, so they got a clue leading them there without needing Divination. They also know that a giant named Barl Breakbones took over the Kreeg clan and sent the ogres to break the dam, but the ogres they interrogated didn't know why. I figured generic ogres at exactly 0 HP after seeing their leader killed before he got to act in the first round of combat would be talkative to save their own skin.
They then cleared out everything at Skull's Crossing except the pit fiend. Despite the info from the earlier Divination, they're afraid to just have someone step into the circle and power the dam, because they're afraid of being trapped in the circle and/or drained of their life. The pit fiend told them he'd give them all the info they need if they free him. Once the party paladin proved he was a paladin (by laying on hands in front of the devil), the devil said he'd give them the info first, as long as the paladin promised to free him unharmed. The party started considering making a written contract, since it's a devil and all that.
That's where we left off. They've been emailing back and forth about possible Divination questions since then. In game, that amounts to stepping out of the room with the devil and discussing it as a group for a few minutes. :)
I've already decided that I'll strongly hint that they don't need the devil's help. I even looked in Gods and Magic to see how Iomedae expresses her displeasure with her followers (flickering/dimming the lights), and I intend to use that when they start talking about cutting a deal with the devil, even before any Divination castings. The paladin and oracle both have high enough Knowledge (Religion) to know what that means. But if they don't get the hint and ask it as a Divination, I'm prepared to go all Yoda on them:
The devil’s deal,
You need not heed.
Already know
That which you need.
Here are some of the other questions they've come up with that I need to be prepared for:
"Is the creature that we know as [the name the devil gave us] bound to obey a signed contract?"
"What effect would destroying the 'devil's' physical form have?" (i.e., would it permanently die? If not, how soon could it return to this plane?)
"Is the 'devil' as weak as it appears, and would it still be if removed from the circle?"
"Is there a way to keep the dam powered without condemning a living creature to remain in the magic circles?"
"Can a human reliably power the dam for a short period without suffering death or permanent injury?" (e.g., would making this a rotating "job" in Turtleback Ferry be a solution?)
Another possible question, most likely to be asked if humans are not a safe, reliable power source:
"Do any of the local fey have the ability to reliably power the dam without sustaining permanent harm?"
"Can the dam still draw power if the magic circles are dispelled?"
I'd like to think they'll get my hints about not dealing with the devil, but this group tends to get things in their head and not let go occasionally.
So I think the key points I need to make clear to them in my answers are:
1. The magic circles only bind the devils to stay, not anyone else, so whoever enters them can walk right out again with no problem.
2. Powering the dam only gives you one negative level, so anyone over level 1 can do it and survive, though they'll need a Restoration spell afterwards if they miss the Fort save.
Once they get that much, they should be ready to go.
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So I think the key points I need to make clear to them in my answers are:
1. The magic circles only bind the devils to stay, not anyone else, so whoever enters them can walk right out again with no problem.
2. Powering the dam only gives you one negative level, so anyone over level 1 can do it and survive, though they'll need a Restoration spell afterwards if they miss the Fort save.
Here's what I've got so far, though I think these answers might be too straightforward, and I don't like the rhymes as much.
Magic circles only bind
Summoned pit fiend and his kind.
Others who enter always find
They can leave as they mind.
Life is drained when lake is filled,
Weakest peasants would be killed.
But stronger creatures, weakness feel,
Survive the process, and spells will heal.
I am really not someone to make paladins fall ever if I can help it, but for me signing a contract with a devil would be at LEAST one point on his paladin driver's license, if not all the way to a suspension. The module has that line in there about alignment repercussions of letting the devil get energy drained, which has always felt exactly backwards to me in it's implications.
As for the 'hint' divination, maybe you could cast it more along the lines of a valiant sacrifice that Iomedae would look well upon, or the like. I'm bad at poetry, sorry.
i am decidedly old school but in my book, paladins do not sign contracts with devils. Ever. The paladin needs to be honest and keep any promises he makes but really shouldn't make any in the first place.
Getting even more dangerously judgemental, your players appear to be using Divination as a crutch. The list of questions (starting with the one about the contract) are almost all questions that should be answered by skill checks such as knowledge (the planes) or knowledge (arcana) or spellcraft. Using Divination should not be a substitute for someone in the party having ranks in those skills. Your players are getting close to using Divination to pick entrees at dinner - should we have the chicken or the beef?
I'd also suggest re-interpretting the AP which indicates that Avaxial is insane and while he initially tries to barter, he doesn't really put up much of a fight so if the pc's hesitate or haggle he should spill what he knows without any contract.
Frankly (again I'm old school and cranky) any paladin who finds out even the most basic facts about how the machine works should immediately move directly the other circle (the sacrifice is his/hers to make and no one else's including prisoners or summoned minions) send the devil back to Hell, save the people of Turtleback Ferry (and several other downstream communities) and take whatever consequences may come. That's what paladin's do - give their very lives for everyone else. Without hesitation.
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They avoided dealing with the devil.
They didn't actually ask all those questions listed above - those were just the things they were tossing around while trying to decide what to ask. They did ask the consequences of stepping into the circle, so they got the rhyme that led them to correctly guess it was negative level(s), which could be healed by a Restoration spell.
They discussed who should step into the circle, and the group didn't want the paladin doing it, because he already has a negative level right now, from Black Magga. You can only heal one of those per week, and he was the only party member who got two of them from fighting her, so only one has been healed so far.
Also, I try to be a little lenient about the guy playing the paladin not acting self sacrificing and heroic at all times. The player didn't actually choose that PC. Someone else made the paladin, then left the group after a couple of sessions, and we kept the character around to fill out the group, so he's now being played by someone who didn't really want to be a paladin. He's not blatantly violating any paladin codes or anything, but he's not overly gung-ho about sacrificing himself like Latrecis seems to think he should be.
Also, I intentionally played Avaxial a little more sane than described in the adventure, and had him hold out trying to negotiate, because the PCs were playing along, and it made for a fun moral dilemma to put them in. I think everyone enjoyed it.
As for relying on Divination too much instead of knowledge skills, shouldn't that be the benefit of taking the spell? If they're willing to spend the money (it's 25 gp per casting), time (10 minutes per casting), and spell slots (4th level spell), then shouldn't they get the benefits? And even though I was thinking some of my clues are too obvious, I've been amazed that the group still doesn't always understand them entirely.
In the end, the party oracle stepped into the circle, and rolled high on his Fort save, so he didn't even get the negative level. So Avaxial is ash, and Turtleback Ferry is saved.
And even though they already knew about Hook Mountain, they decided to investigate the fey connection to Fort Rannick's leader first. They're waiting for a messenger to return with a scroll of Raise Dead for the currently deceased party cavalier before heading to the Hook, because they figure it'll be tough, and they want the extra front liner. So that'll be next session.
Also, I try to be a little lenient about the guy playing the paladin not acting self sacrificing and heroic at all times. The player didn't actually choose that PC. Someone else made the paladin, then left the group after a couple of sessions, and we kept the character around to fill out the group, so he's now being played by someone who didn't really want to be a paladin. He's not blatantly violating any paladin codes or anything, but he's not overly gung-ho about sacrificing himself like Latrecis seems to think he should be.
Not to pick nits Fromper, but the reason paladins are paladins is because of their constant self sacrifice.
I played a Paladin once, super heroic dude (Mandus Dragonspear* by name) ended up getting Fire-boarded by a red dragon while the rest of the party snuck out the back loaded down with treasure, and i was fine with that, thats what paladins do. i've never played one again tho:-)
If they don't want to be a paladin so much they shirk their code (a little is ok, we're all only humanoids after all) have them make a new character or let them retrain into something more appealing like a fighter, ranger, barbarian or cavalier.
At the very least laying your life on the line every second of every day will result in an epic heroic death that you'll all talk about for years to come (and they can also make a new character that reflects more of themselves then just using the last person's character)
You know the Stan Lee quote "With great power comes the responsibility to crush those weaker under the foot of a steel clad dictator"
Any way paladins (and anti paladins) pack some serious shit so the code balances that out a bit.
Edit: *he died at 13th level, which was huge for first edition, yeah it was that long ago, in case you can't tell they aren't my favorite class (i could tell you my favorite but you'd probably just laugh at me:-p)
As always, though I'm full of opinions, some maybe incorrect (all advice will work or your money back!)
If everyone is having fun, it's being done right.
But... Using Divination is going about it the hard way. It's hard on you (your efforts to prepare should be applauded however) and as you admit, it's hard on them - since the info comes in rhyme or limerick they have to puzzle it out and by your admission they sometimes don't. They are praying to God each time they use it - hopefully the topic is momentous enough to justify the interruption of the diety's time.
And continuing the nit picking - the Oracle gets the negative level immediately and automatically. The fort save comes into play 24 hours later and is the driver of whether the negative level is permanent. It's only after that failure does the Restoration limit of 1/week kick in. The secret is to use Restoration before 24 hours elapses in which case it dispels all temporary negative levels.
I'll skip a rant about paladins but offer one observation: Paladin is a class ill-served by a reluctant player. You have to be enthusiastic about playing a paladin to make it work well. If you'd rather be playing something else, you probably should be.
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I probably should have posted sooner to respond to your concerns about the paladin. Just to clarify: that player has his own cavalier PC. The paladin player left, and we kept the paladin around as an NPC, but I gave him to the cavalier player to control, just so there would be less work for me as GM. So he's really playing the cavalier and just helping out the GM by controlling the paladin, too. But I still consider the paladin mostly an NPC, which is why I don't care as much about how exactly he's used.
It's just that at Skull's Crossing, the cavalier was dead (died in Fort Rannick, and they're waiting for a messanger to return with a scroll of Raise Dead), so that player only had the paladin to play at the time. I didn't want to take control of the paladin and have him resolve the situation selflessly, or tell the player that it's what a paladin would do to force him to do it, because I wanted the players to resolve the situation for themselves without the GM stepping in.
Anyway, they'll be heading to Hook Mountain tomorrow. Per emails among the group this week, the only thing they're considering asking in Divination right now is whether they can wait for the messanger to return with the Raise Dead scroll, so they can get the cavalier back before going there. They want to wait, as they figure they'll need the extra PC, but they're worried about the ogres making a move if they wait too long. Since the story is designed to move at the speed of plot, I figure they can wait and it won't hurt anything. I just have to come up with a rhyme to say that.
Here's what I came up with, but it's a little too straightforward:
Mining in Hook Mountain,
Forging weapons, ogres Kreeg,
Wait for orders from their master,
At least a week for evil deeds.
I'm thinking of trying to come up with something that gives more vague hints about who the ogres take orders from, the giants raising their army, etc.
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Wait, I think I've got a better version:
Mining in Hook Mountain,
Forging weapons, ogres Kreeg,
Wait while giants gather armies,
At least a week for evil deeds.
Remember, Divination specifically says it can only be used to see up to a week in the future. This should be good enough to scare them with the idea of giant armies, while letting them know they can wait to head to Hook Mountain.