Goblin Squad Member
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4 and 8 second duration tokens/potions are complete garbage especially in a game with the most clumsy combat control input and event stacking I have ever seen. These effects should last a minimum of 20 seconds and many should last several minutes. Alternately you could just rename them ALL to token of semi uselessness.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I agree that under the current UI, many things that only last 6 seconds aren't worth the trouble to activate, especially if they're interruptible. I'll go beyond tokens and potions to add some of the utilities and cantrips/orisons.
I believe there's something in the EE2 Test preview about lengthening the duration of some buffs. If this experiment is successful, extended durations for tokens, potions and utilities could follow.
Edit: Found it.
We are experimenting with changing some Orisons to have longer-duration buffs with cooldowns.
Can anyone with access to the Test Server comment on how well it's working?
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Goblin Squad Member
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*sprays water* BAD TROLL!
lol
... on a more serious note I do not know anyone that uses the tokens most people seem to either stockpile them or instantly trash them.
In my case its because of the interruption issue. They are such short duration you are only likely to use them in combat when things get scarey but there is no way I am going to use something easily interruptible when I might die any second.
Some of them are and others are not. The 1 round duration on tokens, their fast activation time and the fact that they cost 0 stamina means they can fit nicely into a players action economy. Attack-Attack-Token-Attack-Attack-Token...
Tier 1 potions, grenades and tokens are meant to be just that: Tier 1 gear. At T2 they become much more powerful and much more desirable to use. By T3, many items down right kick ass.
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Goblin Squad Member
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*sprays water* BAD TROLL!lol
... on a more serious note I do not know anyone that uses the tokens most people seem to either stockpile them or instantly trash them.
In my case its because of the interruption issue. They are such short duration you are only likely to use them in combat when things get scarey but there is no way I am going to use something easily interruptible when I might die any second.
It has nothing to do with use, it has to do with them being consumable. Check out any Final Fantasy game forum and there will be people who hoard their potions fearing they will need them someday.
Tokens are plenty useful. Spam the healing one for 50 hp with almost no cooldown, which after this patch is going to be huge for survival.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Some of them are and others are not. The 1 round duration on tokens, their fast activation time and the fact that they cost 0 stamina means they can fit nicely into a players action economy. Attack-Attack-Token-Attack-Attack-Token...
Tier 1 potions, grenades and tokens are meant to be just that: Tier 1 gear. At T2 they become much more powerful and much more desirable to use. By T3, many items down right kick ass.
Is there a simple way to quickly tell which tokens are interruptible ?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Tier 1 grenades aren't quite useless. For a fighter with an axe in one weapon set and a great sword in the other, they can be a good ranged pulling tool. For a gatherer with poor weapon skills, they do consistent damage.
Potion of Speed has a great duration - 6 rounds. That's longer than any of the other speed buffs I know of. Out of combat, using a staff or focus to boost your speed every couple of rounds is no big deal. In PVP, 6 continuous rounds of running away or chasing might make a big difference.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Tokens are plenty useful. Spam the healing one for 50 hp with almost no cooldown, which after this patch is going to be huge for survival.With a cure potion, you get more hp, and a couple of rounds of accelerated healing.
Those things apothecaries craft? We're talking about free drops.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Free for some hp, or pay an alchemist for more hp and some regen.
As I read it, the original post called out both tokens (the free drops) and potions (not free).
Yes, but I was answering the tokens being useless claim. Potions cost money. Tokens don't. I'd naturally expect them to be less useful as a result, but not worthless.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes, but I was answering the tokens being useless claim. Potions cost money. Tokens don't. I'd naturally expect them to be less useful as a result, but not worthless.Free for some hp, or pay an alchemist for more hp and some regen.
As I read it, the original post called out both tokens (the free drops) and potions (not free).
In that case, I agree that the healing tokens aren't worthless.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Some of them are and others are not. The 1 round duration on tokens, their fast activation time and the fact that they cost 0 stamina means they can fit nicely into a players action economy. Attack-Attack-Token-Attack-Attack-Token...
I suspect a lot of us are still training our muscle memory for attack patterns. I'm clumsily pawing at a keyboard and a trackball, and I'm lucky to successfully launch my utilities, much less their upstairs neighbors.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I suspect a lot of us are still training our muscle memory for attack patterns. I'm clumsily pawing at a keyboard and a trackball, and I'm lucky to successfully launch my utilities, much less their upstairs neighbors.
Serious PvP types will have the attack patterns macro programmed to a single key on their gaming keyboard.
... just saying
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Goblin Squad Member
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I suspect a lot of us are still training our muscle memory for attack patterns. I'm clumsily pawing at a keyboard and a trackball, and I'm lucky to successfully launch my utilities, much less their upstairs neighbors.Serious PvP types will have the attack patterns macro programmed to a single key on their gaming keyboard.
... just saying
Ah yes, the developers of RIFT knew this would happen and gave everyone macro access from the start. I loved doing maximum raid DPS by repeatedly pressing a single button. For PVP, I had my single button Rift Blade Voidknight chamber combo that could throw out 7000 dps.
Single button combat will happen.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I suspect a lot of us are still training our muscle memory for attack patterns. I'm clumsily pawing at a keyboard and a trackball, and I'm lucky to successfully launch my utilities, much less their upstairs neighbors.Serious PvP types will have the attack patterns macro programmed to a single key on their gaming keyboard.
... just saying
Ah yes, the developers of RIFT knew this would happen and gave everyone macro access from the start. I loved doing maximum raid DPS by repeatedly pressing a single button. For PVP, I had my single button Rift Blade Voidknight chamber combo that could throw out 7000 dps.
Single button combat will happen.
This is why DDO combat is superior. Tactical positioning and movement over macro garbage. Instead of repetitive combat sequences. You actually get a dynamic unique fight every time. Meh whatever I tried.
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Goblin Squad Member
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/agree Pyronous
I have a few more qualms about duration then just for the consumables though. They are just as short for utilities and more importantly, Expendables which cost Power, a depletable resource.
Duration of Utilities should ramp up when you match more keywords, but before you reach any decent duration you will be close to level 15-20 since you will be needing Tier 2 and 3 Items to do that.
5 seconds of +10 to Reflex, who is *ever* going to interrupt his DPS-ing for a buff like that?
I have no idea how Expendables scale up, since these use yet another implementation of the Keyword system(pairing up with the Role Feature Feat, I believe). But I find each and everyone of my Expendables to be useless in both duration and Strength, especially compared to some overpowering Cantrips and Orisons, that can be spammed infinately. You can also use (most?) Expendables only once per Combat.
Exept my Augment Manouver (Trophy Charm), that is one expendable that is well balanced imo. 350 Self heal, usable once in Combat and consuming power. The 4 Rounds for Endure Elements is also somewhat workable, especially if you can take this higher with more keywords.
Anything 1 or 2 rounds is just too short.
Are these durations tailored for PvP? I can understand that you tailor things like Stuns for PvP and such, because nobody likes to be stunned for 15 seconds, but Buffs should at least have some duration. I think this still leaves a lot of strategizing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This is why DDO combat is superior. Tactical positioning and movement over macro garbage. Instead of repetitive combat sequences. You actually get a dynamic unique fight every time. Meh whatever I tried.I suspect a lot of us are still training our muscle memory for attack patterns. I'm clumsily pawing at a keyboard and a trackball, and I'm lucky to successfully launch my utilities, much less their upstairs neighbors.Serious PvP types will have the attack patterns macro programmed to a single key on their gaming keyboard.
... just saying
Ah yes, the developers of RIFT knew this would happen and gave everyone macro access from the start. I loved doing maximum raid DPS by repeatedly pressing a single button. For PVP, I had my single button Rift Blade Voidknight chamber combo that could throw out 7000 dps.
Single button combat will happen.
My personal favorite tab-target game was the original Guild Wars. Please, use a macroed spell rotation against me. I dare you.
I loved the character I had that ran that. When you consider most players had ~500 health you quickly start to understand how I killed A LOT of people who weren't paying attention before they realized what was going on.
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This is why DDO combat is superior. Tactical positioning and movement over macro garbage. Instead of repetitive combat sequences. You actually get a dynamic unique fight every time. Meh whatever I tried.I suspect a lot of us are still training our muscle memory for attack patterns. I'm clumsily pawing at a keyboard and a trackball, and I'm lucky to successfully launch my utilities, much less their upstairs neighbors.Serious PvP types will have the attack patterns macro programmed to a single key on their gaming keyboard.
... just saying
Ah yes, the developers of RIFT knew this would happen and gave everyone macro access from the start. I loved doing maximum raid DPS by repeatedly pressing a single button. For PVP, I had my single button Rift Blade Voidknight chamber combo that could throw out 7000 dps.
Single button combat will happen.
My personal favorite tab-target game was the original Guild Wars. Please, use a macroed spell rotation against me. I dare you.
I loved the character I had that ran that. When you consider most players had ~500 health you quickly start to understand how I killed A LOT of people who weren't paying attention before they realized what was going on.
Wow what a thrill that's slightly more impressive then killing afk chars.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The way most of those kind of abilities worked is that they were good if used against skilled players and GREAT against people just cluelessly spamming through combos. If you throw that on a player that has mostly spell abilities they are really gimped until someone removes it or it times out. But they won't just kill themselves while you watch and laugh if they are paying attention.
Another great example is healing hands. That was a huge one for my primary build. The proper response is to switch to your heaviest damage abilities and stop making any fast/weak attacks. You would be surprised how many assassins healed me to full health by going nuts on me with their double daggers while I had HH up. Beyond clueless players though I used it on people who were being focus fired, which is how it earned a central place in my build.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I suspect a lot of us are still training our muscle memory for attack patterns. I'm clumsily pawing at a keyboard and a trackball, and I'm lucky to successfully launch my utilities, much less their upstairs neighbors.Serious PvP types will have the attack patterns macro programmed to a single key on their gaming keyboard.
... just saying
I have no idea how you macro program your attack patterns. Sounds like people like me who do not know how (and really don't care to learn) are going to be mowed down by those that do? Is this *out-of-game techno advantage* at all preventable from GWs side? Ganking/griefing aside (which, as I have said elsewhere, is psychopathic/sociopathic behavior) is everyone who does not *macro program* the most potent attack combos on the most efficient min/maxed character at a hopeless disadvantage in this game when confronting banditry or settlement wars?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Macros are generally done through client side programs. Many come for free with high end gaming hardware and some are available for free online. They are nearly undetectable if done well so the best counter is not to design a game where predicable combos are the best way to kill people.
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Goblin Squad Member
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PFO combat has one mechanism that might reward people for writing shorter macros: Percent chances to inflict conditions.
If a player launches an eight keystroke macro, and a condition like Dazed or Distressed is applied early in the fight, then the player probably won't have time to launch a follow-up attack that takes advantage of the condition. The player has to plan the rest of the macro based on the odds of applying the condition.
If a player launches a three keystroke macro, and places an attack with a chance to apply a condition last in the sequence, then the player can choose between two different macros to launch next: one with a follow-up to the condition, or one without a follow-up.
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Goblin Squad Member
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PFO combat has one mechanism that might reward people for writing shorter macros: Percent chances to inflict conditions.
If a player launches an eight keystroke macro, and a condition like Dazed or Distressed is applied early in the fight, then the player probably won't have time to launch a follow-up attack that takes advantage of the condition. The player has to plan the rest of the macro based on the odds of applying the condition.
If a player launches a three keystroke macro, and places an attack with a chance to apply a condition last in the sequence, then the player can choose between two different macros to launch next: one with a follow-up to the condition, or one without a follow-up.
Very good points. Especially given the synergy of group dynamics since the system is designed for you capitalising on conditions your ally can apply, more often than you can do yourself.