Aasimar Mystic Theurge - Help me make sure I do this right

[glass]

Hi all,

I have a PFS character who is a grandfathered in Aasimar with one session of actual play way-back-when, plus enough GM credit that he just hit 3rd level.

If I understand correctly, as an Emberkin Aasimar, my Pyrotechnics SLA meets the "cast 2nd level arcane spells" requirement. I need a similar SLA from a domain to meet the "cast 2nd level arcane spells" requirement. As a Cleric of Nethys, I thought one of my domains gave me that without having to go Separatist. But I can't seem to find it now!

So assuming I'm right so far, what domain do I need?

And are there any other things I bear in mind to make a MT that doesn't suck too much?

-

glass.

PS Obviously, I need Kn(Arcana) & Kn(Religion), but that's pretty trivial.

PPS What do people think of the Ecclesitheurge? Since I won't be wearing armour anyway...

[boring7]

Nothing I can find for earlier access, though if you're just a level 3 cleric you qualify anyway, and I don't know a way around needing to be level 3 for the skills.

Ecclesitheurge gives you "meh" abilities in favor of not being able to wear a haramaki (zero spell failure) and mithral buckler (also zero spell failure). For PFS you're going to have trouble getting that stuff ANYWAY but it's something to keep in mind.

[kestral287]

boring7 wrote:

Nothing I can find for earlier access, though if you're just a level 3 cleric you qualify anyway, and I don't know a way around needing to be level 3 for the skills.

He needs to qualify as a level 2 Cleric, since he'll also need a level of (presumably) Sorcerer so Theurge has something to advance.

You need the Trickery Domain or the Fate Inquisition.

[Dafydd]

Personally, I would switch to normal Asimair for the 3rd level spell, 1 level seperatist cleric of Nethys (Arcane Magic and Trickery) and 3 levels of Wizard, 1 level of MT and then go the rest of the way in Evangelist.

However, that is me, so lets look at your case.

Trickery or Fate are what you need for early access in the divine. However, you can use whatever and take 3 levels of the divine caster. You will want 1 level of probally sorcerer, but wizard, with and arcanist are also options.

Do not go Ecclesitheurge, it will not be as satisfying, IMO.

[Kudaku]

Near as I can tell, none of the traditional Nethys domains or subdomains would qualify you for Mystic Theurge - you'd either have to trade out a domain for an inquisition, or go Separatist Cleric and pick up a domain with an SLA, like Trickery. Separatist is probably your best bet.

I'd either go:
Cleric 2 / Wizard 1 / Theurge x
or
Cleric 2 / Wizard 1 / Theurge 3 / Evangelist X

Evangelist (Inner Sea Gods) is really nice for progressing Mystic Theurge. It gives you extra HP, four extra skill ranks, medium BAB progression and a few extra class features. However it will slow down your caster level progression by 1, which is kind of painful when you're already a level behind a straight caster

Finally, if you went normal Aasimar rather than plumekin and became a Diviner Wizard (scrying variant) you could do Wizard 1/Cleric 2/Mystic Theurge 1/Evangelist X, allowing you to get Evangelist online at level 4. Never mind, Evangelist is hardlocked to level 6 in PFS.

[Blakmane]

Dafydd wrote:

Personally, I would switch to normal Asimair for the 3rd level spell, 1 level seperatist cleric of Nethys (Arcane Magic and Trickery) and 3 levels of Wizard, 1 level of MT and then go the rest of the way in Evangelist.

However, that is me, so lets look at your case.

Trickery or Fate are what you need for early access in the divine. However, you can use whatever and take 3 levels of the divine caster. You will want 1 level of probally sorcerer, but wizard, with and arcanist are also options.

Do not go Ecclesitheurge, it will not be as satisfying, IMO.

The 3rd level spell from the standard aasimar does not satisfy the entry requirements of the mystic theurge.

OP: it's kind of silly, but Nethys, the god of magic, provides no early entry domains for mystic theurge. You will need to be a separatist cleric for PFS. Your only other option is to worship another god.

[glass]

Thanks everybody. It was the Fate inquisition I was thinking of, but I forgot the "inquisition" part and googled "Fate domain". Which lead me to the rather different (and not on Nethys's list) Fate subdomain. I think I'll go with that.

As Blakmane points out, stardust Aasimar would not get me into MT. And even if it could, I don't think I can rebuild into one. I can stay Emberkin because it is grandfathered in, but anything I change to has to be legal now.

Kadaku, can you explain your struck-out comment. Both the original plan, and why it wouldn't work? I'm not sure what "hard locked to level 6" means.

Finally, the consensus seems to be Cleric 2/Wizard 1 rather than Wizard 2/Cleric 1. Is there any particular advantage to doing it that way (or the other)?

Thanks again!

_
glass.

[Cap. Darling]

I prefer Wizard 2/cleric 1 and would also suggest putting level increases in int rater than wisdom. But i am not an expert in MTs.

[Blakmane]

It's not really a big difference, but IIRC Wizard 2/cleric 1 with an emphasis on INT is generally considered better because

a) the arcane list is better more generally

b) the arcane list has more useful offensive spells that are more reliant on CL and save DCs, whilst the cleric list has useful buff spells that aren't DC or CL dependent.

Both INT and WIS are useful stats to pump so that comes out in the wash.

[Cap. Darling]

Blakmane wrote:

It's not really a big difference, but IIRC Wizard 2/cleric 1 with an emphasis on INT is generally considered better because

a) the arcane list is better more generally

b) the arcane list has more useful offensive spells that are more reliant on CL and save DCs, whilst the cleric list has useful buff spells that aren't DC or CL dependent.

Both INT and WIS are useful stats to pump so that comes out in the wash.

Being one or two levels behind in Spell progression is quite a big deal IMOP. But the fact that wizards dosent get free spells with level ups in MT is gonna take some of the fun out of leveling ups until you get spells at the new level in the book.

[Blakmane]

Cap. Darling wrote:

Blakmane wrote:

It's not really a big difference, but IIRC Wizard 2/cleric 1 with an emphasis on INT is generally considered better because

a) the arcane list is better more generally

b) the arcane list has more useful offensive spells that are more reliant on CL and save DCs, whilst the cleric list has useful buff spells that aren't DC or CL dependent.

Both INT and WIS are useful stats to pump so that comes out in the wash.

Being one or two levels behind in Spell progression is quite a big deal IMOP. But the fact that wizards dosent get free spells with level ups in MT is gonna take some of the fun out of leveling ups until you get spells at the new level in the book.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here? The extra two spells you get from taking wizard 2 over cleric 2 isn't really a big deal all up, considering they will be level 1 spells and are relatively cheap to acquire in the first place.

[glass]

glass wrote:

Kadaku, can you explain your struck-out comment. Both the original plan, and why it wouldn't work? I'm not sure what "hard locked to level 6" means.

Nevermind. I see now, it specifically says so in AR. But I can't edit my post for some reason.

Cap. Darling wrote:

But the fact that wizards dosent get free spells with level ups in MT is gonna take some of the fun out of leveling ups until you get spells at the new level in the book.

Wait, the fact that what? Why don't wizards get spells known?

_
glass.

[kestral287]

There's an FAQ on it.

FAQ wrote:

Does a wizard (or other character that uses a spellbook), receive bonus spells to add to his spellbook when he gains a level in a prestige class that grants an increase to spellcasting?

No. The increase to his spellcasting level does not grant any other benefits, except for spells per day, spells known (for spontaneous casters), and an increase to his overall caster level. He must spend time and gold to add new spells to his spellbook.

Part of why I prefer Sorcerer/Cleric. Between that and the unified casting stat via Empyreal, it's a big difference.

Admittedly I think every GM ever would ignore that.

[Cap. Darling]

Blakmane wrote:

Cap. Darling wrote:

Blakmane wrote:

It's not really a big difference, but IIRC Wizard 2/cleric 1 with an emphasis on INT is generally considered better because

a) the arcane list is better more generally

b) the arcane list has more useful offensive spells that are more reliant on CL and save DCs, whilst the cleric list has useful buff spells that aren't DC or CL dependent.

Both INT and WIS are useful stats to pump so that comes out in the wash.

Being one or two levels behind in Spell progression is quite a big deal IMOP. But the fact that wizards dosent get free spells with level ups in MT is gonna take some of the fun out of leveling ups until you get spells at the new level in the book.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here? The extra two spells you get from taking wizard 2 over cleric 2 isn't really a big deal all up, considering they will be level 1 spells and are relatively cheap to acquire in the first place.

I had 2 different points. One that being only one level behind on wizard progression is a Big deal compared to two.

And another about that even with fastest wizard progression possible. Not getting free spells Will often hurt rigth after level ups.
I could have been clearer.

[Blakmane]

Cap. Darling wrote:

Blakmane wrote:

Cap. Darling wrote:

Blakmane wrote:

It's not really a big difference, but IIRC Wizard 2/cleric 1 with an emphasis on INT is generally considered better because

a) the arcane list is better more generally

b) the arcane list has more useful offensive spells that are more reliant on CL and save DCs, whilst the cleric list has useful buff spells that aren't DC or CL dependent.

Both INT and WIS are useful stats to pump so that comes out in the wash.

Being one or two levels behind in Spell progression is quite a big deal IMOP. But the fact that wizards dosent get free spells with level ups in MT is gonna take some of the fun out of leveling ups until you get spells at the new level in the book.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here? The extra two spells you get from taking wizard 2 over cleric 2 isn't really a big deal all up, considering they will be level 1 spells and are relatively cheap to acquire in the first place.

I had 2 different points. One that being only one level behind on wizard progression is a Big deal compared to two.

And another about that even with fastest wizard progression possible. Not getting free spells Will often hurt rigth after level ups.
I could have been clearer.

By the same token, being one level behind on cleric progression is a big deal compared to two.

The second point is a huge deal if your GM is a tight*** and refuses to let you copy from spellbooks in town. Otherwise, it's mostly irrelevant.

[Dennis Deadsky]

How does a Cleric/Witch Mystic Theurge go about getting more Witch spells? Please point me to this info.

[Kudaku]

Either serve the familiar scroll beverages or commune with other witch familiars. I don't have access to my books at the moment but I believe this is explained in a sidebar in the Witch class description in the APG.

[Cap. Darling]

Blakmane wrote:

Cap. Darling wrote:

Blakmane wrote:

Cap. Darling wrote:

Blakmane wrote:

It's not really a big difference, but IIRC Wizard 2/cleric 1 with an emphasis on INT is generally considered better because

a) the arcane list is better more generally

b) the arcane list has more useful offensive spells that are more reliant on CL and save DCs, whilst the cleric list has useful buff spells that aren't DC or CL dependent.

Both INT and WIS are useful stats to pump so that comes out in the wash.

Being one or two levels behind in Spell progression is quite a big deal IMOP. But the fact that wizards dosent get free spells with level ups in MT is gonna take some of the fun out of leveling ups until you get spells at the new level in the book.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here? The extra two spells you get from taking wizard 2 over cleric 2 isn't really a big deal all up, considering they will be level 1 spells and are relatively cheap to acquire in the first place.

I had 2 different points. One that being only one level behind on wizard progression is a Big deal compared to two.

And another about that even with fastest wizard progression possible. Not getting free spells Will often hurt rigth after level ups.
I could have been clearer.

By the same token, being one level behind on cleric progression is a big deal compared to two.

The second point is a huge deal if your GM is a tight*** and refuses to let you copy from spellbooks in town. Otherwise, it's mostly irrelevant.

Yes but for most folks the wizard list looks a little more attraktive than the cleric list, that is at least the case for me.

And leveling up in the dungeon us still gonna be more annoying even with a very generous GM on the spell buy isssue.

[glass]

I wish they wouldn't do stealth errata like that. If I hadn't started this thread to ask a completely different question, I'd never have known about it and would have accidentally been cheating unless and until someone else mentioned it in passing.

OTOH PFS, so leveling up in the dungeon is never going to be an issue. Although that raises a good point, I need to check how get new spells in PFS. I've been meaning to look into it anyway (I have another wizard with a fairly short spell list ATM), but this brings it into focus.

glass.

[Dafydd]

Blah, just saw that. Dislike button.

Well, how about Druid 3/Sorcerer 1/MT 1/Evangelist X

IMO Druid has a better spell list for attack while keeping all the best buffs. Also more Skill points then a cleric and while there is an armor restriction, it is not bad (overcome with dragon scale and darkleaf reduced ASF)

As to how to get more spells. You buy a scroll of spell you want, roll a spellcraft check (forget the DC, but it is not too bad if you have kept up with the skill) and pay the scribing cost, which is in the CRB.

[Kudaku]

glass wrote:

Kudaku, can you explain your struck-out comment. Both the original plan, and why it wouldn't work? I'm not sure what "hard locked to level 6" means.

The idea is to make a normal aasimar scryer wizard / trickery domain cleric. The 2nd level SLAs* from scryer and trickery domain would give you early entry to Mystic Theurge, and the 3rd level SLA from Aasimar (Daylight) would give you early entry to Evangelist.

Unfortunately there is a PFS-specific ban on taking Evangelist levels before level 6, so it's not a viable option for society play. I struck it out to make it clear it wasn't a viable option for your situation, but I left it in because it's still a viable option and it might inspire someone else somewhere down the line. :)

* Aaand I just realized that the scryer SLA is level 3 as well, misremembered it. So you could do the wizard/cleric/theurge/evangelist with an emberkin, as long as you're not in PFS. :)