New caster Control Advice

[Timdog]

As detailed in some other threads, I'm new to being a caster in Pathfinder. Just did my first mission. Some thoughts/advice im looking for:

I originally chose my spells for boom, control and defense. Starting Wondering if I should have tossed control and taken some buffers instead.

We were assaulting a guild house of 3 stories, and at one point bad guys were lining the windows on the first floor. I thought great, wall of fire will provide some minimal damage and more importantly cover. The cleric also lined a blade barrier along the same line. Well next turn poof poof both walls go down and all the archers and other casters get free shots which I was not expecting to take (which could be my fault due to inexperience)

Last night every time I slapped up a control spell, it was dispelled the next turn. And my offensive casting was also limited by a sorcerer who was just waiting for me to cast. So.... why exactly does everyone talk about control spells being awesome? It seems like dispelling is REALLY easy, and if you are outnumbered at all, there's enough of them to dispel any defense and control spells you smack up. Or is this just a problem because we were so outnumbered?

I'm thinking I missed the boat on conjuration spells which I believe can't be dispelled, correct? I do have stinking cloud, but are there other key ones that I really missed the boat on? or other tricks I've just not thought of due to inexperience.

[andreww]

Conjurations can be dispelled. Target enemy casters first and you remove the chance of your spells being dispelled.

Edit: Instantaneous spells cannot be dispelled so some effects would be immune. Wall of Stone for example cannot be dispelled.

[Eltacolibre]

Like usual, the same advice goes for every encounters ...disable the casters first.

[Timdog]

Oh ick so even wall of fog and the like can be dispelled? Crud. I was under the impression they became ”real" and hence had to be dispersed like natural fog

[Eltacolibre]

fog cloud, can't be dispelled. Because it is conjuration (creation), well it can only be dispelled if the enemy has counterspell basically when you are casting it, which I'm not sure what kind of casters you were fighting. But once it is cast, the fog cloud is here to stay.

[Timdog]

Black tentacles is also creation conjuration. Also non dispellable then? Not understanding therules here....

[Eltacolibre]

Basically this is how it goes:

When you cast a spell, as in the action of casting, you haven't summoned the creature yet or called whatever you are summoning. So if someone has counterspell (let's be real nobody ever does this) , which means he has the exact spell or dispel magic, he can attempt to counter you with dispel magic so you don't summon whatever creature or thing you were calling.

But well, if you manage to cast your spell without interruption (counterspell or taking an attack of opportunity for example and failing your concentration check) , the creature or thing is here to stay. Only for conjuration (creation) tho, other conjuration spells can be dispelled normally.

[Timdog]

Thanks. Still seems weird that black tenticles are "real" after being created.

Appreciate you clarifying the system

[andreww]

Timdog wrote:

Thanks. Still seems weird that black tenticles are "real" after being created.

Appreciate you clarifying the system

Unfortunately he is wrong, nothing about Conjuration (Creation) spells make them immune to Dispel Magic. The key question is what is the duration. Instantaneous spells cannot be dispelled. For example Wall of Stone is an instantaneous Conjuration (Creation) spell. The wall is a real actual wall and lasts until something happens to it and cannot be dispelled as no magic is still involved. Black Tentacles is a Conjuration (Creation) spell which lasts 1 round per level. It can absolutely be dispelled.

[Timdog]

Crap.makes more sense