|
Rob would it be possible to post test character that the testers used at 5th, 10th and 15th level. I would like to see how they are geared out and also show them to my GM. Part of the problem I seem to be having with the AP is one of expectations. Through 10th level I have not found anything useful to my character a 10th level bloodrager our wayang
sorc really likes the bronze dude but no joy for my character.
The treasure that we have found in no way compares what we are awarded on chronicle sheets for the AP that we apply ot our PFS characters. Placing one real good item ie the bronze dude does not make up for the rest of the characters getting squat there is all kinds of cool things we could find in this setting.
Why did you not put items like a decanter of endless water, cloaks of comfort, bags of holding or handy haversacks even +1 metal armors with the comfort enchanment. perhaps a camel figurine of fabulous power a really cool item for fighter type character's would have been armor like what was in the tv show Star Gate that retracts into a torc worn on the neck. All kinds of mundane jewelery would be grat treasure awards we could take them back an trade them to our buddy
Senior Developer
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
We don't have playtesters or test characters for our Adventure Paths. First, there's not enough time in a monthly publishing schedule for us to playtest all of the encounters in an adventure. As a result, any sort of playtesting is the responsibility of the individual adventure authors.
I've mentioned this before, but there is no way an Adventure Path can be tailored to every group and every single player. Each adventure is written by a different author, who pretty much chooses the treasure given out in their adventure. Sometimes we add or cut things during development, but for the most part, treasure choices are made by the authors.
I do keep track of what magic items are given out through the AP in the hopes of avoiding too much repetition, but in some cases (particularly with stat boost items or protective items like cloaks of resistance or rings of protection), repetition is unavoidable.
We assume that PCs will be able to buy, sell, and/or craft items during the campaign to get the items they want or need. Beyond that, it's up to the GM to place items and hand out treasure that is more personalized to his players and their PCs. There is literally no way that the adventure authors or developers can give out exactly the items that every player (or even one player) might want.
Something like a decanter of endless water would be a good fit for this AP, and in fact one does appear - it just looks like you haven't gotten to that point in the AP yet. We try hard to put in thematic items as treasure, but again, there's no way to please everyone all of the time. This is something that you should really discuss with your GM, becuase only he or she can modify the published adventures to better fit your group.
Regarding the PFS Chronicle sheets for Mummy's Mask, it's first of all important to realize that they are abstractions to allow you to play an AP for PFS credit. Because of the treasure and wealth guidelines for PFS (which are different from those in the core game, because Organized Play functions differently than regular play), they don't include all of the treasure given out in the AP. But all of the treasure on the chronicle sheets does appear in the adventure. If there is a discrepancy, it's not between the published adventure and the chronicle sheet. Either you overlooked some treasure in play or the GM changed it.
Creative Director
|
Also, is there a job offer to playtest these kinds of things? I would love to do it
The development cycle IS more or less the official "Playtest" of the adventure, beyond anything that the authors do of their work. For a monthly product like an adventure path, the schedule doesn't really allow for extensive in-house playtests... and since out of house playtests would take much longer, due to the inefficiency of out of house stuff like that... it's not really an option.
|
|
Rob and James, perhaps I did not word my earlier post very well. What I would be interested in seeing is some characters that either of you played in this AP or any other AP at maybye 5th 10th and 15th level.
I am interested in seeing their gear so I can kind of set my expectation level for future AP's that I play in. I think that I am comparing my previous play in what I would have to say is a much higher magic setting
in greyhawk/Ferun and Arduin than in Golarion.
How can characters in Mummy's Mask buy gear in the mid point 5th threw 10th level when they are in the deep desert? Crafting is out too as it takes far to long for the timeline in this ap.
Lou - Why does crafting take too long? I'm currently DMing the AP, just finished the 3rd chapter (so a bit behind where your group has reached), and I'm not seeing anything yet that puts my PCs on a clock. If the PCs decide to camp for a week or two, they can do that. If they decide (as mine did) to take a side trek up to Sothis when they leave Tephu, or to travel over to Eto (a city not far from the Parched Dunes) during chapter 3 and 4, as far as I can tell, they can do that.
You probably should talk with your DM about expectations. Your DM may be enforcing time limits that aren't in the original adventure, which is completely within his/her purview - but if so, he/she ought to ensure that the gear your group finds has useful items for all PCs. Or you may be misunderstanding and assuming there are time limits when there aren't, and your DM may say, "Go ahead and take a side trek to the capitol" (or "Camp and do some crafting"). If the time limits are important to the story your DM wants to tell, maybe he/she can put in an encounter with a traveling merchant who can let you trade stuff you've found for more useful items, or even handwave things a bit to let you swap for some useful items. If your group tends more towards being sticklers for stuff like that, maybe you can list a few items that your PC could use, and the DM can choose a few to intersperse with treasures listed in the adventure over the next few levels.
Ultimately, though, this is something that can only be addressed by talking it out with your DM. And frankly, seeing what any other group's PCs look like won't be that helpful, because you don't know what their DM has done to allow/encourage/discourage/adjust magic item creation, sales and purchases, swapping items in the text, etc.
Whats your axe you're grinding CWheezy?
|
Creative Director
|
This seems like a "Perfect is the enemy of good" situation to me as well, since you can't test everything you test nothingWe don't have playtesters or test characters for our Adventure Paths. First, there's not enough time in a monthly publishing schedule for us to playtest all of the encounters in an adventure. As a result, any sort of playtesting is the responsibility of the individual adventure authors.
I've mentioned this before, but there is no way an Adventure Path can be tailored to every group and every single player. Each adventure is written by a different author, who pretty much chooses the treasure given out in their adventure. Sometimes we add or cut things during development, but for the most part, treasure choices are made by the authors.
And since the definition of "perfect" is different for each and every group... it's a difficult task to get right for one group, but since right for one group is wrong for the other... it's pretty much impossible. Which is why we aim for the midline, so regardless of your group, you shouldn't have to adjust things much to make the adventure work for you (as opposed to making the APs as easy as possible or as hard as possible which makes it overly difficult for one spectrum of gamer to adjust it).
|
|
James, Play test was the wrong word. What I am looking for are examples
of characters Rob or someone else at Pazio who has played Mummy's mask AP has used so that I can compare them to my character and show them to my GM because he is not giving us anywhere near the loot we need to buy items that our characters need. In other threads that I have commented on
people have pointed out that we could craft items but the crafting rules are so broken that it not feasable to do this either.
So we can hope to find Items that don't seem to be there because the designers seem to have an anti-martial bias. In this AP it seems they don't like casters very much either as I have seen almost no scrolls given out as loot or wands. My current character will hit 11th level tuesday and the character that I am applying credit to is 7th level and has far better gear than my 11th level character.
|
Creative Director
|
James, Play test was the wrong word. What I am looking for are examples
of characters Rob or someone else at Pazio who has played Mummy's mask AP has used so that I can compare them to my character and show them to my GM because he is not giving us anywhere near the loot we need to buy items that our characters need. In other threads that I have commented on
people have pointed out that we could craft items but the crafting rules are so broken that it not feasable to do this either.So we can hope to find Items that don't seem to be there because the designers seem to have an anti-martial bias. In this AP it seems they don't like casters very much either as I have seen almost no scrolls given out as loot or wands. My current character will hit 11th level tuesday and the character that I am applying credit to is 7th level and has far better gear than my 11th level character.
Two things:
1) We don't have characters to post for the bulk of our APs. For example, I started running a Serpent's Skull game several years ago to playtest the first adventure (which I wrote), and by the time the campaign ended (due to players moving away and other complications), we'd only made it half way through the 4th adventure... that was last year. I've played through the first 1.5 adventures of Skull & Shackles until we had a TPK, at which point we switched over to Mummy's Mask. We're about to wrap up the 1st adventure, and I'm playing a fighter in that game. The rate at which I play through an AP is MUCH slower than the rate at which I develop them, and as such, there's no way I'd have characters at 5th, 10th, and 15th level.
2) I'm okay with posting some details on my characters, but it's not my call to post others, or to post details of my players' characters. As it turns out, posting a character build on the internet is an open invitation for folks to micromanage and pick apart the character, and I'd rather not put my players in that position. I'm not super keen on doing it myself without having my work go through the standard development/editing process, to tell the truth, and any writer who tells you otherwise is doing it wrong.
THAT ALL SAID.
That's over three times the wealth a 3rd level character should have, according to the charts. Now... there are circumstances—I'm the ONLY martial character in the party, so pretty much all of that gear goes to me. I don't know what the other player character gear is at. The group does have more than 4 PCs, so the GM has (I assume) been (rightfully) increasing the treasure (and challenges, that part is CERTAIN) as a result.
But in my experience, at 3rd level, playing a martial character, I've got PLENTY of treasure.
Every game varies. That's why you need to bring this up with your GM to let him/her know your concerns.
I'd be happy to post where my wealth is at as we hit the 2nd and 3rd and 4th adventures, but as detailed above... that's gonna take, I'm guessing, months, if not years.
It does sound like happy fun times, not sure where the problem is there:-)
what you propose is unreasonable:-)
|
Creative Director
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
1) We don't have characters to post for the bulk of our APs. For example, I started running a Serpent's Skull game several years ago to playtest the first adventure (which I wrote)
Here is a problem: that is not playtesting. That is Happy Fun Time, which explains why it takes so long and doesn't get anything done.
Playtesting would be making some standard level guys, and doing every encounter and knowledge check in the book, and seeing what results you get.
It's not a problem at all.
It WAS playtesting in my specific case. I played through Souls for Smuggler's Shiv and got some good feedback before I turned the adventure over for editing. The fact that I went on to play the next 3 adventures with my group as a regular campaign IS happy fun time, and was not playtesting. That doesn't mean what I did with the first adventure wasn't.
When I playtest an adventure, it's PRECISELY to see if it's fun to play. And the way to find out if it's fun to play is to play it. For me, forcing the players to "test every knowledge check and exhaust every encounter" is not fun... it's work. That's how you playtest isolated rules elements. That's NOT how you playtest adventures.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have 59 AP books, i'm very happy with the quality:-)
I have 59 AP books, i'm very happy with the quality:-)
Indeed. The thing that I want from an adventure is NOTHING BUT for it to be fun to read and play.
That is why I continue to purchase and run Paizo adventures.