Cornugan Smash and Cruel weapon enhancement

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

What is the order of operations when applying the effects of Cornugan Smash and a Cruel weapon? Does the first swing inflict both the shaken and sickened conditions (assuming a successful intimidate check) or does it only apply the shaken condition, and then a successful second swing on the now shaken target causes the Cruel weapon's ability to trigger (target is then also sickened)?

Thanks!

[Ascalaphus]

Cornugon Smash wrote:

Your terrible attacks strike fear into your enemies.

Prerequisites: Power Attack, Intimidate 6 ranks.

Benefit: When you damage an opponent with a Power Attack, you may make an immediate Intimidate check as a free action to attempt to demoralize your opponent.

Cruel Weapon wrote:

When the wielder strikes a creature that is frightened, shaken, or panicked with a cruel weapon, that creature becomes sickened for 1 round. When the wielder uses the weapon to knock unconscious or kill a creature, he gains 5 temporary hit points that last for 10 minutes.

It's a bit iffy, but to me it looks like the Cruel weapon will trigger as soon as you succeed at hitting, while the Cornugon Smash triggers when you proceed to rolling damage. So you're missing it by a hair on the first round.

[DrakeRoberts]

I'd say you'd need a second hit. Cruel Weapon triggers off of your successful attack ("strikes"), the shaken from Cornugon Smash triggers off of a free action taken once you have "damage"d your opponent (which comes after the attack roll's resolution. That's how I've been playing Cornugon Smash + Shatter Defenses -

Quote:

Benefit: Any shaken, frightened, or panicked opponent hit by you this round is flat-footed to your attacks until the end of your next turn. This includes any additional attacks you make this round.

anyhow.

[Paulicus]

I've used this combo on my inquisitor, and play it similarly. Unfortunately, the creatures often die before the sickened effect can do much, though that still results in temp HP often.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

I'm inclined to agree with everyone that's posted so far; it makes sense that a second hit is required (and successful intimidate from CS) before the sickened condition would be applied. I might have to do a search on any ways to perform intimidate as a swift or free action without requiring a successful attack.

[Ascalaphus]

I think the easiest way would be a bard with Dirge of Doom active.

[Imbicatus]

A high level Viking Fighter, or Boar style.

[Claxon]

What you're looking for is the hurtful feat.

1) Cornugon Smash for free action intimidate on a power attack.
2) Hurtful kicks in assuming you succeed on the intimidate granting you an extra attack.
3) The extra attack allows you to proc Cruel.
4) Bonus points if you can pick up Riving Strike and give them a -6 penalty to saves, which was the focus of the Bloodrager character I made. Though it did require the use of Blooded Arcane Striek feat, so I wasn't spending the swift action for arcane strike to pull it off. Otherwise you don't have the action economy to do it in a single turn.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

@Claxon: Very nice, sir. Though i do own the Monster Codex I had glossed over the Hurtful feat.

Thanks for the reminder!