Engineers make rogue kits, of which Phaeros will need plenty of. They also make Shields.
The only thing Jewelers make of use right now are Trophy Charms.
Alchemist- Phaeros has a dedicated Alchemist. You need a dedicated Apothecarist, first, though, if you want to do any Alchemy.
Artificer- Always in high demand anywhere there are wizards.
Goblin Squad Member
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Alchemist is indirectly dependent on the supply of raw chemicals, which is so high at the moment that some people consider certain chemicals to be almost worthless (tansy leaves in the south, belladonna berries in the northwest).
Any character can use the items that alchemists make. This might lead to a wider market than the crafting professions that primarily supply one combat role (like artificers with wizards, or iconographers with clerics).
Alchemist is indirectly dependent on the supply of raw chemicals, which is so high at the moment that some people consider certain chemicals to be almost worthless (tansy leaves in the south, belladonna berries in the northwest).
Any character can use the items that alchemists make. This might lead to a wider market than the crafting professions that primarily supply one combat role (like artificers with wizards, or iconographers with clerics).
Excellent market analysis, Mr. Karlbob. Now, shall we trade Tansy Leaves for Belladonna Berries?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Excellent market analysis, Mr. Karlbob. Now, shall we trade Tansy Leaves for Belladonna Berries?Alchemist is indirectly dependent on the supply of raw chemicals, which is so high at the moment that some people consider certain chemicals to be almost worthless (tansy leaves in the south, belladonna berries in the northwest).
Any character can use the items that alchemists make. This might lead to a wider market than the crafting professions that primarily supply one combat role (like artificers with wizards, or iconographers with clerics).
As it happens, I've spent most of my EE time so far near Talonguard (just south of the belladonna zone). Give me a few days, and I'll head north and pick a few bushels of belladonna to trade.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I read this thread title as "Advice on TNT-based crafting" and was sad that, even in Golarion, I cannot justify adding that with the setting lore.
Because that would be awesome.
Just because of this I am so going Alchemist, now where can I find toluene, sufuric and nitric acid >:)
If Hammerfall is blown to pieces, it is Stephen's fault, he gave me the idea ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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The only thing Jewelers make of use right now are Trophy Charms.I believe the keywords on Miscellaneous Gear are working and will currently improve Utilities.
Is that the Head to Foot slots on the paper doll? The last I heard they weren't working. Does this mean if I equip the correct footwear my Evasion will be better? If so, in what way will it be better?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Maybe I'm missing something on some of the crafting skills, but Jeweler seems an almost worthless investment of several hundred thousand XPs. This one crafting skill in particular could have been designed to allow a player to make their character unique by choosing specific items to put in their paperdoll. They could emphasize stealth, power, an extra spell level with a ring of a certain type, faster travel, better loot drops, or any number of other things. Right now this profession is not worth investing in. Tailor is not far behind in it's limitations (robes being the one exception).
Any future plans of adding lots of additional recipes for jeweler to make it not suck?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I get what they DO make, but it sure seems like a lost opportunity to allow some diversity in each role. I can easily see the limited options leading to "ideal outfits" for each role. There are not really many variations on gear. Ignore the plusses, and they are all the same.
I am hopeful fleshing out the gear is in the future, because for the investment in XPs there are no crafts that seem very deep at all.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm not convinced that they need as many different crafting roles as they have. Perhaps one day, but at the moment, Seventeen crafting roles to support four adventure roles (and I'm not including Gathering) is extraordinarily heavy. It's putting a lot of strain on settlements to try to maintain all the roles they need if they hope to have decent gear.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm not convinced that they need as many different crafting roles as they have. Perhaps one day, but at the moment, Seventeen crafting roles to support four adventure roles (and I'm not including Gathering) is extraordinarily heavy. It's putting a lot of strain on settlements to try to maintain all the roles they need if they hope to have decent gear.
"No company is an island"
(unless it's big enough to be a continent)The current design is deliberately to force interaction between companies. You're not supposed to be able to maintain all roles without a bit of strain (just like no settlement have all the trainers).
Even if you have 17 dedicated crafters and a bunch of dedicated gatherers, you still won't find find all the resources you need within 10 hexes of your settlement. Deliberate?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've played the economics game since alpha to ensure I know what I'm doing when I guide my settlement
1 crafter is cappable to support multiple other players
1 refiner is cappable to support multiple crafters
Many gatherers are needed to feed the economy
Gathering 48 Iron and 48 coal and 3 ordered Essence = 1 hour real time at least unless you are in a very priviledged position (yes - you might gather other stuff as well in this time)
The smelter takes a few minutes to take the goods and process them. Real time is around 15 minutes for some +2 steel plates right now - but the player can do other stuff in this time.
At last the armorsmith - 3 hours to turn the steel plates into some pot steel plate +2
This steel plate should last some 20 death - so this should be a while.
Now the true issue is settlement size. You have a completely different economy with 5, 10, 20, 50 or 100 characters.
Anyone can be a tier 1 gatherer - but it will be interesting how this plays out at larger groups at tier 2. I have already started to stockpile lodestone (from trash heaps and not from the mountains of Golgotha or EBA - just in neighbours are concerned).
Some crafting is cheap. I have a 1000XP bowyer for us right now - all she needs is refined materials to make longbows or shortbows. Tier 2 will need someone dedicated - or someone from a different settlement.
But other (smaller) settlements will have the same issue - so that is where connections and trade comes in. The one crafter who might work 24/7 in my mind is the armoursmith. High need for metal armour - long times to craft them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Time isn't the issue. If a player goes on vacation, or drops out of the game, and is your only or primary crafter in a particular thread, that's not a huge problem if it's T1, and there's no fighting going on. If a group loses their only weapon smith or smelter or bowyer or sawyer during a war with T2 gear in play....
Or if it turns out the excellent, dedicated, weapon smith you've handed all your recipes and refined metals to is a double agent and flees with / trashes the stored goods just as the war starts....
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've played the economics game since alpha to ensure I know what I'm doing when I guide my settlement
1 crafter is cappable to support multiple other players
1 refiner is cappable to support multiple crafters
Many gatherers are needed to feed the economy
Yes. If all of the crafter and refiners are different characters, that's 17 refiner/crafter characters for a self-sufficient settlement. Many of them might be DTs at this stage. Some players might even run two crafter/refiner DTs. But the requirement for 17 characters puts a pretty firm limit on how small a settlement can be before it can be self-sufficient.
For the land rush, They might have instituted a lower limit, requiring at least 30 players to win a settlement space. They didn't do that, of course. Smaller settlements are probably going to be challenged mustering enough gatherers, crafters, and combatants.
On the other hand, even in the large settlements, most crafters and refiners are probably nowhere near keeping their queues full. As TEO/Brighthaven's tanner, I've probably done no more than 8-12 hours of queues in game to date.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But the requirement for 17 characters puts a pretty firm limit on how small a settlement can be before it can be self-sufficient.
I feel compelled to point out that Settlements aren't supposed to be self-sufficient. Functioning markets (with Buy Orders and price discrimination for allies) would relieve a lot of the pressure on smaller Settlements, I think.
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Goblin Squad Member
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With "only" 17 crafting skills, one would hope the gear produced would be worth investing the staggering amount of XPs needed. Sadly, Jeweler does not get a passing grade, only needed for Trophy Charms. Tailor only does because of wizard robes. All their other gear is largely useless, and it will only get used for the extra 0.5% boost. (Almost as useful at Tokens).
I am hopeful these useless crafting skills get fleshed out in the future. For now that are not worth investing in.
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Goblin Squad Member
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With "only" 17 crafting skills, one would hope the gear produced would be worth investing the staggering amount of XPs needed. Sadly, Jeweler does not get a passing grade, only needed for Trophy Charms. Tailor only does because of wizard robes. All their other gear is largely useless, and it will only get used for the extra 0.5% boost. (Almost as useful at Tokens).
I am hopeful these useless crafting skills get fleshed out in the future. For now that are not worth investing in.
This is one way looking at it. The other one is - as a high skilled jeweller you might stand out in PFO. There might be only two or three like you who invested in this craft from the very beginning.
Weaponsmith you might get in every settlement and sometimes even several.From a min/max perspective it is a bad choice - to stand out it is a good one.
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Goblin Squad Member
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People typically want to both have fun and be good at something to achieve a sense of purpose. That's a tough row to hoe with most crafting classes in the game at the moment. Being anywhere near the top at Tailor, Jeweler, or Iconographer means that unless you have multiple characters, you'd better really like making the same one or two things over and over again.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am actually thinking there should be more refining and crafting roles.
A few people have been saying they feel there is little point in crafting or refining as every role already has soemone specialising in it and whats the point of doing it if its already covered :D
More roles would provide more opportunity for finding a crafting niche.
On the same note T1 recipes (with one or two extra rare exceptions) are far too common its very easy with a bit of adventuring and a bit of trading to acquire all the T1 recipes for a craft in very short order.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Being anywhere near the top at Tailor, Jeweler, or Iconographer means that unless you have multiple characters, you'd better really like making the same one or two things over and over again.
Certainly there should be many, many more options for crafting these items by expanding some of the keyword functions. Or even having straight crafting bonus keywords in order to give crafters an entirely new set of keywords they could imprint on crafted items to give them their "signature".
"Speedy" on a leather blacksmith apron would speed up smelting time, armorsmith time and weaponsmith time.
"Carver" or "Woodsman" on a similar piece of clothing or gear would give a bonus to crafting time for sawyer, bowyer, and carpenter.
And so on. No need for all the keywords to be useful in combat. There is a little of that now in some crafts, but the variety of craftable items should be GREATLY increased.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Being anywhere near the top at Tailor, Jeweler, or Iconographer means that unless you have multiple characters, you'd better really like making the same one or two things over and over again.Certainly there should be many, many more options for crafting these items by expanding some of the keyword functions. Or even having straight crafting bonus keywords in order to give crafters an entirely new set of keywords they could imprint on crafted items to give them their "signature".
"Speedy" on a leather blacksmith apron would speed up smelting time, armorsmith time and weaponsmith time.
"Carver" or "Woodsman" on a similar piece of clothing or gear would give a bonus to crafting time for sawyer, bowyer, and carpenter.
And so on. No need for all the keywords to be useful in combat. There is a little of that now in some crafts, but the variety of craftable items should be GREATLY increased.
That is what spellcraft is for.
Well at least that is the intent when its implemented.