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To get Slashing Grace as a Swashbuckler do I need to take Weapon Finesse separately?
I assume I do since Swashbuckler Finesse does not interact with slashing weapons on it's own as reading the start of the ability.
The last line about having the ability to act as Weapon Finesse for feat requirements seems to lead me in the other direction.
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To get Slashing Grace as a Swashbuckler do I need to take Weapon Finesse separately?
I assume I do since Swashbuckler Finesse does not interact with slashing weapons on it's own as reading the start of the ability.
The last line about having the ability to act as Weapon Finesse for feat requirements seems to lead me in the other direction.
Slashing Grace requires Weapon Finesse. Swashbuckler Finesse is treated as Weapon Finesse for terms of feat requirements. So you would NOT need to take Weapon Finesse feat (you, in essence, already have it). You still need a Dexterity of 13 and Weapon Focus with the chosen weapon for Slashing Grace..
There is a bit of a grey area in taking feats for which you do not qualify. If you do not meet the prerequisite for a feat, you cannot use that feat, but that doesn't mean you can't choose to learn it. Most GMs will at least require you to be capable of meeting the feat before you take it, even if only conditionally (a primary example is a druid taking feats based on abilities gained from wild shape).
In my games, I require my players to effectively be able to train in the feat before they can take the feat. A druid cannot take Final Embrace (prerequisite: constrict) at level 1, since they cannot take the form of anything with constrict, but they can take it after level 8 because they can wild shape into a boa constrictor with the constrict special ability.
So you can get Slashing Grace as soon as you have Swashbuckler's Finesse. However, if you aren't using a Swashbuckler weapon, you do not count as have Weapon Finesse and thus Slashing Grace is inactive. Once you use a Swashbuckler's Finesse-able weapon, your Slashing Grace feat becomes active and you are good to go.
This isn't different from someone with Power Attack being drained down to a 10 strength. They have the feat but it is inactive until their strength gets back above the Power Attack's prerequisite.
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So according to how you do it do I need to just use a swashbuckler weapon once and then SG is good for the rest of the campaign, or do I need to still only use Swashbuckler weapons...which is kinda silly to even spend the feat, cause in that case I would just buy WFin normally and then retrain it asap.
This ability counts as having the Weapon Finesse feat for purposes of meeting feat prerequisites.So that part is not tied to the first part?
As in first you need to use an appropriate weapon to act as if you have WFin, which then lets you use WFin for other feats.
Slashing Grace was created specifically for swashbucklers during the Advanced Class Guide playtest, and it calls out the swashbuckler class abilities in the feat itself.
When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler’s or a duelist’s precise strike)
So Swashbuckler's Finesse counts as Weapon Finesse for feat prereqs, and Slashing Grace makes a one handed slashing weapon count as a piercing weapon so that you can use Swashbuckler's Finesse with it. You do not need to get Weapon Finesse separately.
Also note that Slashing Grace does not allow you to use Weapon Finesse with a one handed weapon. If you have normal Weapon Finesse, you cannot use your Dex instead of Str for your attack roll, even though you can use you Dex for damage.
Slashing Grace only lets you use your Dex to attack with one-handed slashing weapons if you use it with Swashbuckler's Finesse (barring any exotic weapons like the Aldori dueling sword).
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Swashbuckler's Finesse counts as Weapon Finesse for the purpose of feats. Period. You're overthinking this; so long as you have Swashbuckler's Finesse you are free to take any feat or ability that has Weapon Finesse as a pre-req.
Yeah, I probably am but it smacks of the whole chicken/egg conundrum.
The general consensus is that at 1st level I can take Weapon Focus and Slashing Grace as a Swashbuckler. That works for me.
There is a bit of a grey area in taking feats for which you do not qualify. If you do not meet the prerequisite for a feat, you cannot use that feat, but that doesn't mean you can't choose to learn it. Most GMs will at least require you to be capable of meeting the feat before you take it, even if only conditionally (a primary example is a druid taking feats based on abilities gained from wild shape).
Actually it's not really a gray area at all. The rules are pretty specific about this:
...many of them have special prerequisites that must be met before they are selected
So no a Druid can't take wild-shaping feats before she can wild shape.
Jodokai - I meant more in the area of prerequisites that are transitory. Final Embrace, among other things, requires the 'constriction' special feature. A level 8 human druid can turn into a boa constrictor which has the special feature 'constriction', which the druid gets to use while in that form.
Can the druid, at level 9, take the feat Final Embrace? He doesn't always have constriction, but he can get pick it up whenever he uses wild shape.
OilHorse - Ok, I now see your concern. Normally, you only get Swashbuckler's Finesse for piercing weapons. Slashing Grace lets you treat a slashing weapon as a piercing one for the purpose of Swashbuckler abilities, but it requires Weapon Finesse. But you don't have Weapon Finesse except when you are using a piercing weapon, but Slashing Grace is only for slashing weapons.
So either you can't get Slashing Grace because you don't have Weapon Finesse for the weapon type you choose for Slashing Grace. Or, Slashing Grace never activates because of a circular dependency (SG only when using a SF weapon, but SG is required to make the slashing weapon an SF weapon).
Do not consider it as a sequence of activation, but rather a holistic approach that simply checks off boxes without worrying about order. Do you have the Slashing Grace feat for this slashing weapon? Then you also have Swashbuckler's Finesse for this slashing weapon, which allows SG to be active.
You should be fine at level 1 taking Weapon Focus and Slashing Grace.
Jodokai - I meant more in the area of prerequisites that are transitory. Final Embrace, among other things, requires the 'constriction' special feature. A level 8 human druid can turn into a boa constrictor which has the special feature 'constriction', which the druid gets to use while in that form.
Can the druid, at level 9, take the feat Final Embrace? He doesn't always have constriction, but he can get pick it up whenever he uses wild shape.
Ah apologies, I misunderstood...
I was going to say that a Druid using Final Embrace (for example) had a pretty strong case because of Belts and Headbands adding stats allows you to meet prereqs, but those are considered Permanent Adjustments after 24 hours. Now I'm sort of leaning the other way. I'll have to think about that some more.
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OilHorse - Ok, I now see your concern. Normally, you only get Swashbuckler's Finesse for piercing weapons. Slashing Grace lets you treat a slashing weapon as a piercing one for the purpose of Swashbuckler abilities, but it requires Weapon Finesse. But you don't have Weapon Finesse except when you are using a piercing weapon, but Slashing Grace is only for slashing weapons.So either you can't get Slashing Grace because you don't have Weapon Finesse for the weapon type you choose for Slashing Grace. Or, Slashing Grace never activates because of a circular dependency (SG only when using a SF weapon, but SG is required to make the slashing weapon an SF weapon).
Do not consider it as a sequence of activation, but rather a holistic approach that simply checks off boxes without worrying about order. Do you have the Slashing Grace feat for this slashing weapon? Then you also have Swashbuckler's Finesse for this slashing weapon, which allows SG to be active.
You should be fine at level 1 taking Weapon Focus and Slashing Grace.
Yeah.
Seems to be the consensus that I have no issue with it, and I know it should be good but as I say, I confuse myself at times.
If you do not meet the prerequisite for a feat, you cannot use that feat, but that doesn't mean you can't choose to learn it.
I swear I read something from a developer once that said that that is how the rules for pathfinder should have worked, but it is not the way they do.
You may only acquire a feat if you qualify for it, and you may continue to use it after you no longer qualify for it(such as strength dropping to low to have power attack).
Although it's entirely possible that I'm wrong, or that it was about 3.5 or something.
Murphy is incorrect.
Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he gains the prerequisite.
So you can not select/choose a feat until you meet the prereqs. I think what Murphy is remembering is SKR saying he would think it would be ok if the rules allowed for a feat to be selected before the player can actually use it. He was not stating that as rule, but what he would allow if he were in charge.