Playing a Rogue in Neverwinter Nights 1 right now, and it's got me thinking about the class in Pathfinder. I do believe it needs improvement. I even thought about some things it could maybe get. It comes across as a straight up buff to the class, but I think the Rogue could kind of use that, because it always came across as fairly weak to me. So here goes the Alpha version, which is in addition to everything a Pathfinder Rogue would normally have:
At 1st level, a Rogue can choose between getting Precise Shot (Point Blank Shot is not a prerequisite for this at my table anymore), Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes, Improved Feint (I combined Improved and Greater Feint into one feat that scales with level), or Two Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat (I combined TWF, Improved TWF, and Greater TWF into one feat that scales with level).
Rogue Sneak Attack dice are 8 sided.
At 3rd level, a Rogue can make a Sneak Attack whenever she makes an Attack of Opportunity.
At 4th level, a Rogue can add her Int modifier to Will saves.
At 5th level, a Rogue gets to add her Int modifier to attack rolls and weapon damage whenever she can make a Sneak Attack.
If a Rogue Talent has a limited number of uses per day, she adds her Int modifier to the number of daily uses.
Everything is a Rogue class skill.
Two new Rogue Talents:
Steady Aim:
Prerequisite: Precise Shot
Benefit: +30 FT to Sneak Attack range
Skillful Deceit
Prerequisite: Rogue 4
Benefit: Add Int modifier to Stealth, Bluff, and Disguise
New Advanced Talent:
Precision Fire:
Prerequisite: Steady Aim
Benefit: No maximum Sneak Attack range
If the Rogue Genius Games Talented Rogue is being used (I have chosen to allow it at my tables, but do not require a Rogue to use it.), the 3rd level benefit listed here is gained when a Rogue gets to 2 dice of Sneak Attack and the 5th level benefit when they get to 3 dice. Int to saves becomes a talent requiring 4 levels of Rogue, and the bonus feat at 1st level becomes an edge. Int to talent uses per day becomes an attribute of each talent and edge with limited uses.
So, how did I do? Useful? Crazy powerful? Meh?
Sort of Meh.
You're forcing people to be a specific type of character concept by tying everything to INT, essentially. All those things need to be options for a rogue player (talents) not requirements.
Improved will saves are not thematic to a rogue and your reasoning for them was purely mechanical, so that's also sort of Meh. Instead, just homebrew a feat that will allow any character to switch out INT for WIS in terms of bonus to will saves.
Rogues don't need more sneak attack damage, really. Their damage in combat is stupendous, given the right circumstances. Instead, allow them ways to bypass sneak attack/crit immunity against various foes so that it is more reliable.
Add Improved Dirty Trick and Improved Steal to the list of feats the rogue gets at 1st level, I'd say. I mean it feels logical for the class.
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Honestly? Consider designing a feature that's Use Magic Device 2.0 and give it to the rogues. Maybe give them 1/2 level to UMD checks with an additional ability. Maybe faster than normal activation? Maybe allow them to freely activate items they've activated before? Maybe allow them to activate items without expending charges or use scrolls without wasting the spell a few times per day.
If rogues are the best item activators, they'll have a distinct niche in mid and high tier play. In fact, a change like this would almost definitely bump them into tier 3 automatically.
That sounds like a sorcerer thing to me, honestly.
That sounds like a sorcerer thing to me, honestly.
Actually, it sounds pretty much exactly like a rogue thing. Jarlaxle comes to mind.
Wasn't there a new rogue archetype in the ACG, that did something similar?To the OP: seems ok, maybe a little bit too much. Is the int bonus to will saves in addition the wisdom bonus?
Thats a lot of Int. If I play a charismatic rogue with an unremarkable intelligence score, am I just hosing myself?
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Honestly? Consider designing a feature that's Use Magic Device 2.0 and give it to the rogues. Maybe give them 1/2 level to UMD checks with an additional ability. Maybe faster than normal activation? Maybe allow them to freely activate items they've activated before? Maybe allow them to activate items without expending charges or use scrolls without wasting the spell a few times per day.
If rogues are the best item activators, they'll have a distinct niche in mid and high tier play. In fact, a change like this would almost definitely bump them into tier 3 automatically.
Magical Knack (Ex)
An Xth level rogue gains a pool of points equal to half her rogue level plus her Charisma modifier. This pool replenishes daily. So long as she retains at least 1 point in her pool, she gains a bonus equal to half her rogue level on Use Magic Device checks. By expending 1 point, the rogue may perform one of three special abilities. She may reduce the time it takes to activate a magic item by one action step; she may use an expended limitied-use ability on a magic item or scroll an additional time; or she may cancel a malfunction. These are immediate actions.
That sounds like a sorcerer thing to me, honestly.Actually, it sounds pretty much exactly like a rogue thing. Jarlaxle comes to mind.
He was a Fighter.
Invocation / Invoke Magic Item / Item Invocation / Magical Knack (Su):
A rogue gains a pool of points equal to 1/2 her level + her Charisma bonus that allow her to accomplish extraordinary deeds with magic items. As long as she has points remaining in this pool, she can add 1/2 her level as a bonus to Use Magic Device checks and gains a +2 bonus to saving throws against spells activated by magic items. The total number of points in this pool is renewed after resting for 8 hours, although these hours do not need to be consecutive.
Once per round she can spend 1 point to do one of the following:
-Add her Charisma bonus to an item's normal caster level for a single use of a magic item that activates a spell, such as a potion, scroll, staff, wand, or certain wondrous items. The item's adjusted caster level cannot exceed her ranks in Use Magic Device.
-Do not expend an item's charge when using a spell completion item and beating the Use Magic Device DC by 10 or more.
-Take 10 when making a Use Magic Device skill check, even though normally prohibited and when distraction or stress would normally prevent her from doing so.
-Treat a Use Magic Device check that fails by 10 points or more as a failure to activate the device, instead of a mishap.
-Try to activate an item with Use Magic Device within 24 hours of rolling a natural 1 and failing to activate that same item.
Good question, and I suppose I don't have a justification. (Ex) it is.
I would keep all rogue abilities (Ex), that way they can't get turned off.
Sure, just kick me when I'm down and rub it in.
;)