Im running a dungeon in a few weeks based in a city that is torn up in a civil war. Essentially the city is in the control of two baddies that have teamed up - one a rich aristocrat with a gang of 'enforcers' made up of gladiators and his friend, a highly successful businessman who has bought up most of the city's mines and the largest construction company. He has essentially won the unswerving support of the working class citizens of the city by giving them better pay and working conditions and uses them as a militia. Worse, that stone golem he bought to help with construction projects has been stationed outside the parliament building with strict instructions to squish anyone that tries to enter. The building has one entrance, and my party need to find a way in. Obviously they cant fight it head on, so I want to make this a logic test, finding a way to take it down. One idea I did have was for a weird reclusive wizard to be in the city, and that they could enlist the help of one of his creations (maybe a huge dog made of plants or something equally weird) to take it down, but is that a bad DM move because it takes the focus away from the party? Essentially they aren't doing anything, its the plant dog. Any thoughts?
Does anyone have Create Pit?
If so, just drop it in a pit and pelt it with things until it dies. It'll take it at least 4 turns to climb out, and likely a couple more. Everyone throwing Alchemist's Fire is 1d6 per hit vs. touch AC per round, and then another 1d6 most times due to catching on fire.
Makes it 14 points a round or so and thus 56-84 damage (or so) before it gets out. Plus the 7 from falling into the pit in the first place...and that probably leaves it with less than 30 hp. And you can Pit it again if you like.
If you lack the spell...an ordinary pit trap also works, though you'd need a way to lead it there.
Really, Golems are easy if you're expecting them and know how to work things.
Golems are tough enemys but with a bit of preparation....
First most buildings have windows. Take the way over the roof than climb down to a window. A rogues job. Or buy a scroll of create pit and lure the golem in. Throw a net and after the net a piece of sail cloth to deny the golem line of sight. Put long planks over the pit walk over it and even if the spell is over them golem has no idea what happened.
But honestly. Take the roof. There must be some windows. Even if barred a few flasks of acid do the trick. And it is a much cheaper and more silent way.
Soloed by 5th lv hexcrafter/wizard. Assuming open spaces outside parliment hall, cast fly/activate flight hex, then whittle it down using acid splash. Bring an acid flask so you get +1 dmg when using it as focus. Acid splash has no SR.
Depends on your party, but levitate or fly both completely wreck the traditional golems. Use alchy fires or acid flasks (or acid splash cantrip) and he's dead. Create pit or glitterdust are also fantastic.
If they have no full casters, it'll be much trickier. Higher ground and alchemical items may be enough, but the golem will likely come for them. Otherwise they may just have to avoid: some pots of invisibility should be enough to get by.
No windows, except one large skylight in the roof, but the palace guard ardent going to be happy if they smash that to get in. Not sure on the party yet, but I doubt it, so yes, finding a scroll in the city might be the best bet.
Also, I think im struggling with the city overall. The idea is that it is the capital city of a small empire and is ran by a council of 8 rich guys. There is a small religious order of clerics and paladins that keeps the council members safe and I think these guys need to be pretty powerful, right? These are the core of the city's defense after all, and need to be able to deal with almost anything, other than a full scale invasion (the army would deal with that, but is not in the city).
I think that this city guard would HAVE to be fairly high level, even if there are only a few of them, and could therefore do anything better than the party, and that would mean that the baddies would need to be even more powerful, making the party small fish in a very very big ocean, which isn't much fun for them. I think perhaps I will make it so that the temple / political district is still safe, thanks to the city guard but that they have lost control of the rest of the city which is overrun by militias and mercenaries in the pay of the baddie which melt away when confronted in force. The rest of the city guard, which are not part of the religious order and are just ordinary citizens are scared to oppose them, and some have even joined the mob.
The party would have to restore order in the city proper, before the baddie can use his mobs to intimidate the council into giving him lots of power e.c.t.
Nets + alchemists fire can take of anything, right?
Uwotm8 wrote: Nets + alchemists fire can take of anything, right? Yes, pretty much, which is why we tend to eschew playing at high levels. When evryone has super powered items and are teleporting, wielding flaming swords and flying magic carpets things get too much. But I dont know how to avoid using high level stuff in a city encounter, seeing as presumably the most powerful people around are there.
I think the best way around this will be to put a lot of high level scrolls, lots of alchemists fire and all sorts of other stuff they can use in the city, but at prices they cant afford. That way, stealing the items becomes a task for them to complete before they get their hands on them.
But that still raises the question of why cant the city guard deal with this golem. Potentially I could blockade them in a building, maybe by getting the golem to roll a rock into the doorway, but I imagine a 13th level cleric (as high priests are) could find a way out pretty quickly.
My problem is reconciling the demands of the players - a fun low level adventure where they feel like they are powerful - with the demands of the settings - lots of powerful people. Unless of course I just make everyone else weaker. Its not like it really matters if I change the levels I guess, they are only high level priests and stuff for flavor.
A golembane scarab is not that expensive of an item (at 2,500gp) for 5th lvl characters. I'm not saying you let the whole party run out and buy a set at the nearest magic shop.. but you could place one somewhere? Or, depending on your tastes, have a quick side quest unfold where they get one as a reward.
Maybe instead of a mad wizard's 'plant dog', he has a scarab he will give them - if they can smuggle him out of the city first.
Maybe the golem's creator made one as a precaution and the PCs have to track him or her down?
Maybe your villain has one locked away somewhere (or wears it) and the PCs have to devise a way to steal it?
Just some thoughts.
James F.D. Graham wrote: A golembane scarab is not that expensive of an item (at 2,500gp) for 5th lvl characters. I'm not saying you let the whole party run out and buy a set at the nearest magic shop.. but you could place one somewhere? Or, depending on your tastes, have a quick side quest unfold where they get one as a reward.
Maybe instead of a mad wizard's 'plant dog', he has a scarab he will give them - if they can smuggle him out of the city first.
Maybe the golem's creator made one as a precaution and the PCs have to track him or her down?
Maybe your villain has one locked away somewhere (or wears it) and the PCs have to devise a way to steal it?
Just some thoughts.
Awesome. I think I will hide one, or something similar, in the weird plant wizards home, and they have to break in and get past the plan dogs or whatever to get it
5th level cleric, wizard, or witch can easily destroy a golem in complete safety.
Cast Summon Monster III & summon a Lawful Good Lantern Archon. Tell the lantern archon to destroy the golem. Archon flies, staying out of golem's reach, and inflicts 7+ HP / round (which penetrates all DR) to the golem. If the golem has more than 35 HP it will require 2 summon spells, which a 5th level caster can still accomplish.
A stone golem seems like barely a speed bump at 5th level, so long as it's not a tightly confined space.
It does seem crude of the PCs to destroy the golem. Seems wiser to find a way in through a window. But a golem is not a serious obstacle by 5th level.
As mentioned, an unsupported golem can be destroyed by a 5th level party. Let's pretend for a moment they don't have a caster, like, at all. As long as it's standing out in the open with no backup and no regular updates to its commands it will happily stand there while the level 1 warrior collects a siege weapon (ballista or the like), sets it on top of something like a building the golem can't climb or is too stupid to find. After prep time the warrior just starts firing until it dies. Unlimited prep time does that to a LOT of fights.
The question is how much time they have and how unsupported the golem really is. The time is really a big factor across the board, but more on that later.
So...politics.
I'm not sure why the party even needs to care. To date your "baddie" has:
-increased the minimum wage.
-Won popular support of the people.
-Taken the capitol building by force but seems to be willing to let them surrender rather than kill every living threat to his power.
-is replacing a morally-uncertain oligarchy with a (according to him) benevolent dictatorship in a realm where monarchies are the standard form of government.
-(His buddy) Has given a new, generally safer career to a bunch of otherwise doomed-to-die gladiators.
I mean, what evil has he been doing that you haven't mentioned? Is he secretly running a demon cult? Is his group of loyalists really small and they're murdering/looting the rest of the city? I would assume it is supposed to be the second one but "the working class" and "the gladiators" make up a majority of the population of most cities. A majority-backed revolution has to be pretty darn evil or stupid to really stand out as clear bad-guys instead of gray-and-grey-morality. Demon-cult with secret plans of burning the city are generally more "solid ground" in the morality play department.
It's your story, but that's how I'd see it as a player.
Wider politics: How complicated to you want? Generally speaking a Capital City is going to be packing at least 3 factions, more likely 7 or 8. You have 2 with around 2 subfactions in each. If that's all you want, fine, but it limits your options. 2 factions means clear battle-lines, tends to mean open fighting (because there are no other factions involved), and doesn't leave a lot of time because the moment one side manages to make enough gains it all cascades into one side winning, there isn't much in the way of fallback or territory to lose in a city.
There's that time factor again, something to keep in mind.
2 factions and less time also means less mission variety. If the PCs are helping one faction, if they are effective enough to get on the enemy's radar they will be targeted with the enemy's strongest forces. That means either the 5th level PCs are just as powerful as the most powerful NPC in the entire city (and country, really) or they are going to lose. Again, if that's what you want, it's your campaign.
If you want more factions, here are some common ones:
Rebel Aristocrat: Born a bastard, he climbed to full lordship through bribery, murder, and prowess on the battlefield. He was even a gladiator for a time, which is why the gladiator slaves he freed rallied to his cause. They have fortified his manor in the poor district and the arena at the edge of the poor district.
Upstart merchant: a keen mind and help from the dark side have seen him take monopolies in several critical industries. His handouts to the poor keep him safe, his murderous cult that sacrifices both his enemies and beggars of the street keep him powerful.
The Loyalists: Aristocrats, guild-masters, and everyone who likes the old order. Under them are the shopkeepers, the lesser mage-wrights, the guild-members, and their private security forces. Currently trapped in their little power-bases, stuck outside the city, or holed up in the besieged capitol building.
Defenders of the Faith: Often related by blood to the loyalists, in favor of the old order (because "order"), and vaguely aware of upstart merchant's "dark side" problem.
The City Guard: Stationed at the walls and watching for enemies without, a combination of factors and political plays have left them unwilling to take a side between the two main factions. They've sealed the city so no more help comes from the mines and to keep traveling merchants from exploiting or being exploited by the situation. They haven't cleared the capitol building because of some bizarre legalese and because the Stone Golem is really scary. Perhaps the stone golem was licensed as a protector of the city, and until that license is revoked (requires written order from the Capitol, oh wait it's embargoed) The Guard's hands are tied.
Thieves' guild: The thieves and assassins and beggars of the city helped whoever paid them (the rebel factions) but that time is at an end. Too many blood sacrifices, too many good counter-offers by the Loyalists (because the loyalists are getting desperate enough to make those offers) and a guildmistress who knows that inevitably the new boss wears the same size thief-stomping boots as the old boss. Currently trying to keep the conflict going while making out like bandits.
Foreign Ambassador: Little obvious power, just enough guard forces to keep the embassy secure, but with solid communication lines, hired mercenary agents, competent smugglers, and a foreign army willing to raid any faction holdings outside the city (like certain tasty mines or outlying fiefdoms) or even assault the city proper, he's a player. He might even conquer the city and the nation if the civil war is too crippling.
The Sorcerer: Actually a wizard, she has little outside her tower, but what is INSIDE her tower could probably wipe out the city if she unleashed it. She tries to avoid politics but that doesn't mean she succeeds. Also just because SHE outlived all her relatives and has basically no connection to the city doesn't mean her apprentices don't have mothers and brothers and dumb revolutionary hippie chicks they want to score with dragging them into the maelstrom. She makes a living selling magic stuff, she's pretty much untouchable but people are going to try to anyway. Some want her dead, some want her as an ally, some want her to remain neutral, and some just want to con her into thinking she's under attack by someone else.
Adventurers: The PCs fit here. Other adventurers may also get involved, there may in fact be an adventuring merchant who ends up playing "home base" so they don't have to completely sign on with any other faction, though first they have to rescue him from his attackers and help him set up shop and defenses in his (rented) warehouse.
Golems themselves have wiggle room, as a rule they have no minds, but as old-school thinking computers you have options you can cram in if you want. Maybe Mr. Stone is impossible to talk to at all. Maybe he replies to all questions with programmed replies and actually seems helpful and friendly except for his blood-spattered fists and his warnings that he will destroy anyone trying to enter the Capitol Building. Maybe he can be led into a logical paradox that causes a shutdown. Maybe he's being controlled by a minion who can be bribed, intimidated, or tricked into just walking away and taking the Stone Golem with him. Run far enough with the right codes and The Boss won't be able to stop you, and Mr. Stone is worth enough money to retire on.
Personally, I prefer lots of factions, with lots of factions stalemates last longer (Faction A just kicked the tar out of Faction B, but finishing off B will leave them open to attack by C), there are more missions that can be done, more options to switch sides, and more time for the PCs to discover more about what's going on from multiple perspectives. I mean, the two MAIN factions are still going to be rebels v. loyalists, but convincing the Thieves' Guild to switch sides or The Sorcerer to remain neutral are part of the fun.
Good luck.
The backstory for helping the current establishment is that they are long time allies with the adventurers home town fighting a common enemy. If the coup is successful military aid could be withdrawn and the PC's mothers, fathers, cousins, nefews, neighbours, old crushes and the local postman are left to face the oncoming wave of undead from the northern wasteland. Getting them on side is not a problem, thankfully.
Also, the baddies dont really have popular support, they have a very vocal minority, after all who is going to stand up to an armed mob? Raising wages was not a benevolent move, it was a bribe to turn the poorest and most desperate people into a private army he can use as pawns.
I agree, entirely, that more factions are better, but I also want to keep it relatively simple. At the moment the council is actually split, completely. The baddie and his henchmen are both on it, alongside 6 others. 3 of those are strong willed enough to resist him, but are being kept out of the political sphere by force, the other 3 are simply too scared of his enforcers to oppose him unless they have the other 3 on side, so uniting the three noble factions to oppose the baddie is one facet of the quest. But yes, I totaly agree there should be more smaller factions too, I just didnt want it to be the generic 'complete a quest for each leader to earn his trust'
Sounds fair.
If you wanna keep the implication that NPCs are hardcore while giving the PCs something to do (and specifically fight that CR 11 Stone Golem at level 5) it'll be a delicate balancing act. I suppose you could have their main job not be *fighting* it at all per se, just getting it off the Plaza and away from the building while a strike team slips in. Whether they just have it chase them while hitting it enough to keep its interest or straight-up kill it with planned out traps and shenanigans they have a job, a very important job, and higher-level NPCs can still be higher-leveling it up off-camera.
Or make some convoluted hostage situation where the PCs are the only ones who can get into the building without setting off the demolition charges that will kill everyone inside the building because all the Defenders of the Faith/Guardsmen have been "tagged."
Or the disobedient councilmen have been kidnapped, and the only people who might know where they are always seem to know when the usual suspects (city guard, DotF) are coming. So the PCs as relative unknowns can blah-blah you get the picture.
I'm just throwing out ideas, it's late and I tend to babble at this hour.
Edit: To blather a bit more. A level 5 party CAN take out a stone golem with adequate prep-time, planning, and knowledge. If the deck can be stacked right, a level 1 commoner can do it. If the deck is stacked WRONG, if the party doesn't know what they're doing, a Stone Golem can reliably put the hurt to a level 12 party.
It really does depend on the situation. Example: as a large creature the golem has (effectively) a +24 to its climb check against a Create Pit spell. The DC of the climb and whether or not it even tries to climb is rather dependent on its orders and the spell cast. Example 2: A floating wizard chucking acid at it can wear it down eventually, but if somebody with a crossbow and good cover starts shooting at Mr. Wizard or if someone orders the Golem to throw rocks (-4 improvised weapon, still a +9 to hit) at him he's going to have some trouble. ANd it's right out if he's stuck inside a room with a 20 foot (or less) ceiling. Mr. Stone gots reach.
And even if you make Mr. Stone dumb enough, you're banking on your players being smart enough.
Which is why GMing is a challenge, I suppose.
we are on the same lines already :D I actually have one of the 'good' council members awaiting a mock trial (read execution) unless the NPC's can save him, another who's family member has been kidknaped as leverage (the NPC's have to go into the slums and get ambushed an angry militia of pick axe weilding, stone throwing thugs in the tight alleyways, with people throwing heavy roof tiles down onto them (2d6 falling damage sound fair? DC 15 reflex save?)), and another who is being besieged in his house by an angry mob, so the PC's have to extract him safely.
But yeah, the golem was just an idea that I wanted to use. I want them to know it is there and have to plan and devise a trap to get rid of it. Maybe not kill it, but keep it out of a fight.
They could also potentially assasinate the baddie. Lots of optns
One way of keeping the powerful goodies out of the mix is that because they are religious fanatics to the god of law (a slightly modified Iomeadea) they wont attack the baddies yet as they have not broken any laws. All they are doing (that anyone can see) is hanging around looking scary. No laws against that. Sure they are murdering and killing in other parts of the city, but noone can prove that.
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