Combat Patrol with weapons that have longer reach / range than threat

[NikolaiJuno]

Is using Combat Patrol with a mastered Whip or a ranged weapon with Snap Shot do you have to move to be within your weapons natural threat, or just within its range/reach?

[Claxon]

Hmm....interesting question.

I think what happens for instance, is that with a whip (and whip mastery) you threaten 15 ft normally. Combat patrol increased that by 5 ft for every 5 BAB. So at BAB 10 you would threaten 25 ft. But your weapons reach is still only 15 ft, so you have to move to attack something that enters those 20 or 25 ft squares.

A bow with snap shot is similar, but what is unclear is if you need to move at all to make the shot since your range with it is effectively unlimited compared to the area you can threaten. I think, you would just threaten at 20 ft (assuming 10th level, combat patrol, and improved snapshot) and would get to make an attack against anyone entering that 20ft threatened area.

[NikolaiJuno]

A whip with Improved Whip Mastery only has a threat of 10', but a reach of 15'. So you wouldn't have to move to attack something 15' away?

[Claxon]

I'm sorry, I thought it threatened 15. So if that's the case it actually has a larger reach than it threatens. But it's still a similar scenario because combat patrol increases your threatened range.

So, your threatened range goes from 10ft to 20ft. But you can reach 15ft with your whip. So you would only need to move to hit targets in the 20ft range because you can reach the others. However, do keep in mind that when you move your range is still set. So if you move 5 ft to hit one target in the 20ft range in front of you. Then you can no longer reach the 15 ft range behind where you originally stood. So you would have to move again.

Does that clarify?

[NikolaiJuno]

So the threatened spaces are set when you use the full round action, and if you move your threat range is calculated based still on the spot you used the feat?
If so does that entirely replace your threat? Or do you have it and your normal threat aria(for whips 10') from this new spot?

Also I just realized that it allows you to move as part of the attack, but does not specify how you move or that you must move closer. I read that as you may back up while attacking with a reach weapon like a whip(possibly just a whip or other similar odd cases, like greater natural reach).

On a related note does Lunge actually increase the threat of a whip?

[Claxon]

Yes, that's how I understand it.

As a full round action you set up a zone which you threaten based on your original location. You threaten everything in that zone, which is larger than your weapons normal threatened area.

Now, when a creature enters the threatened area they provoke and you can move to attack (the movement is specifically granted by the feat). However, if for some reason you can reach a creature without moving then you don't need to move. You can just attack.

I believe it entirely replaces your normal threatened area. You only threaten in that new area, though I'm shaky on this.

It doesn't specify how you must move when making an attack, though the presumable intent was to move to the target (within your threatened zone). I think the other thing is that you must make the movement before the attack.

None of this is clearly spelled out, just my best guess.

[NikolaiJuno]

Another thing, if you move do you threaten the space you were standing before? What if your weapon is a normal reach weapon that can't attack adjacent?

[Kazaan]

You must move to a spot from which your weapon can reach. So, for example, a whip can attack out to 15' but has a 10' threat with the Whip Mastery feat. Combat Patrol adds, we'll say for example, 10' of threat so you now have 15' reach and 20' threat. If someone provokes within 15', you need not move; you can just take your AoO from where you stand. If someone provokes at 20', however, you must move to within 15' of them before you make your AoO. You may not move farther than your speed so, if your speed is 30' and you use up all 30' of movement in moving to take your AoOs, you can't move anymore until your next turn comes around (though, you can still make AoOs within your attack reach). Additionally, your threat radius is based on your dynamic position, not just the spot you started from. So if you move to make an AoO, your threat is measured from the new position where you end up; thus your "threat field" moves with you.

Regarding "normal" reach weapons that exclude adjacent targets, the feat says it "increased" your threat radius, not that it covers squares within the minimum radius. So you cannot say that an adjacent creature provokes and take a step away to deliver the AoO. But if movement to deliver an AoO to a valid provocation moves you away from a previously adjacent target, such that it is now positioned within your new threat field, you may now deliver AoOs to that creature if it subsequently provokes.