| Tassel |
Goodmorning everyone:
I was directing a game and when i saw a monster with DR and realized that rogue without sneak attack wasn't able to bypas the DR,so I thougt should Ilet him sneak attack?
In raw i haven't found anything taking about a need for the rogue to bypass the DR to sneak attack, but in my mind it is something obvious. So the question is, is anywhere the things explained? Does that rule exist? Does any GM use any similar rule/house rule in his games? Does it seem very restrictive for the rogue in combat?
And another thing, can the rogue sneak attack everythig in the world except constructs, elementals and some few monster more? Or is there any criteria to say ypu can sneak attack thia or that or something? I mean a devil for another plane with a very strange form, or i don't know, something very uncommon, or not known by the rogue?
Thank you a lot in advance.
Tassel
| Oliver Veyrac |
This one is pretty simple.
"The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet."
So let's say I am a 3rd level rogue with +2d6 sneak attack, wielding a dagger with a 12 strength (+1 damage). So my damage is 1d4+1. I am flanking the target. My damage now becomes 1d4+1+2d6. The monster I am fighting has DR 10/Silver. I inflict 11 points of damage before damage reduction, resulting in 1 point of damage.
Tricky part comes from poison. In this case, I don't roll decent for damage with my poisoned dagger against the same foe, I inflict 9 points of damage (sneak attack and all). The poison becomes wasted because I wasn't able to injure it.
As for the monsters being sneak attacked, that is correct. Rogues can sneak attack almost everything. That is why Fortification armor is golden against sneak attackers. You can also negate sneak attack with effects like obscuring mist, etc. Any form of concealment negates sneak attack damage.
I call sneak attack in our games "A planned crit" because it is alot of damage, but can be a lot of team work and work on the rogue and the party's part most of the time. Which is the nice thing to encourage. Our golden rule when surrounded by rogues. Attack the rogue in front of you and acrobatics out of there so that way you don't get two weapon fighting sneak attacked. It's alot of damage and you don't need it. Even the monsters I GM do the same exact thing.
| Blakmane |
a) sneak attack does not bypass DR, but it does get added to the total damage instead of being separate.
For example, a rogue doing 1d6+5 + 2d6 sneak attack would do an average of 15 damage with his attack. Against a monster with DR of 5, this would be 10 damage.
b)
You can sneak attack absolutely anything that isn't 'immune to precision damage'. Constructs CAN be sneak attacked as they are not immune to precision damage. A devil from another plane could also be sneak attacked just fine.
The 'creature types and subtypes' page on the OGC is a good place to look if you are unsure about whether a type of creature can be sneak attacked.
| Nessus_9th |
a) sneak attack does not bypass DR, but it does get added to the total damage instead of being separate.
For example, a rogue doing 1d6+5 + 2d6 sneak attack would do an average of 15 damage with his attack. Against a monster with DR of 5, this would be 10 damage.
Where is this rule written? I have a GM who is convinced that sneak attacks only apply if you are able to do more damage than the creature has DR. I'd like to un-convince him :)
| Blakmane |
Blakmane wrote:Where is this rule written? I have a GM who is convinced that sneak attacks only apply if you are able to do more damage than the creature has DR. I'd like to un-convince him :)a) sneak attack does not bypass DR, but it does get added to the total damage instead of being separate.
For example, a rogue doing 1d6+5 + 2d6 sneak attack would do an average of 15 damage with his attack. Against a monster with DR of 5, this would be 10 damage.
| Nessus_9th |
Nessus_9th wrote:Blakmane wrote:Where is this rule written? I have a GM who is convinced that sneak attacks only apply if you are able to do more damage than the creature has DR. I'd like to un-convince him :)a) sneak attack does not bypass DR, but it does get added to the total damage instead of being separate.
For example, a rogue doing 1d6+5 + 2d6 sneak attack would do an average of 15 damage with his attack. Against a monster with DR of 5, this would be 10 damage.
many thanks blakmane
| Nicos |
And another thing, can the rogue sneak attack everythig in the world except constructs, elementals and some few monster more? Or is there any criteria to say ypu can sneak attack thia or that or something? I mean a devil for another plane with a very strange form, or i don't know, something very uncommon, or not known by the rogue?
Only if hte monster in question have that special ability. (there are calss feature that deny sneak attack though)
| MeanMutton |
This one is pretty simple.
"The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet."
So let's say I am a 3rd level rogue with +2d6 sneak attack, wielding a dagger with a 12 strength (+1 damage). So my damage is 1d4+1. I am flanking the target. My damage now becomes 1d4+1+2d6. The monster I am fighting has DR 10/Silver. I inflict 11 points of damage before damage reduction, resulting in 1 point of damage.
Tricky part comes from poison. In this case, I don't roll decent for damage with my poisoned dagger against the same foe, I inflict 9 points of damage (sneak attack and all). The poison becomes wasted because I wasn't able to injure it.
As for the monsters being sneak attacked, that is correct. Rogues can sneak attack almost everything. That is why Fortification armor is golden against sneak attackers. You can also negate sneak attack with effects like obscuring mist, etc. Any form of concealment negates sneak attack damage.
I call sneak attack in our games "A planned crit" because it is alot of damage, but can be a lot of team work and work on the rogue and the party's part most of the time. Which is the nice thing to encourage. Our golden rule when surrounded by rogues. Attack the rogue in front of you and acrobatics out of there so that way you don't get two weapon fighting sneak attacked. It's alot of damage and you don't need it. Even the monsters I GM do the same exact thing.
How do the monsters you GM know to do that? Seems a bit metagame.
| kestral287 |
How do they know to not let somebody stroll up behind them and stab them in the back?
It's a pretty simple fighting tactic, honestly. When outnumbered, put your back to something you can trust-- a wall, a comrade, whatever. Leaving it exposed gets you killed. If you can't do that, yeah, you track where enemies are and move if somebody is coming at your back.
*Shrug* Not that the Int-2 wild animals should necessarily be doing that, but anything with intelligence should be able to figure out the most basic tactics.