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Mike, what is the point of limiting 2nd level wands until after 6th level as 2nd level wands cost 4500 gp. IMO that is vey excessive . There are no game breaking 2nd level spells.
I really did not look at this before as in pfs I normally play Maltial characters.
It seems to me that the cost in prestige to buy magic item needs to adjusted downwards.
What is the magic level the campaign low or medium? The magic level cannot be seen as high in any means as by 10th level martial charcters are Lucy to have arms an armor of +2 or greater?
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umm, you mean level 4 right?
My level 4 Cleric has 20 fame, which means that he can purchase 5250gp worth of items, meaning he can purchase a 2nd level wand at level 4 not 6!
unless I am completely missing something.
as for the cost, well you get 50 of the spells instead of 1 or 2 that a class who can cast that spell can do.
so if you do the whole math thing
4500gp / 50 = 90gp per spell for a spammable spell, means that the wands are somewhat game breakable. ie if you cast 50 2nd level spells (extreemly hard to do) but you would be able to make a level 4 wizard or sorcerer seem inadequate.
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18 / 4.5 = 4 levels
At the intended long-term average rate of Fame increase, it will be unlocked at 5th level. As others have said, many characters will exceed this.
A 5th level sorcerer with typical Charisma could cast the spell 5 times a day, so if the spell is worth spending money on, it could be significantly better than a party member's class feature. By the same class comparison it shouldn't be available multiple times a day before 4th level.
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In addition to what the others said, I'm not sure where you get the idea that prestige is really that drastic a cap on martials equipment.
Looking at three potential options, all characters who just hit level 10 (27 XP):
-If you get 2 PP every scenario, you've got 54 Fame, allowing you weapons of +5, armor of +7.
-If you played 9 modules for 4 PP each, that 36 PP would let you have +3 weapons, +4 armor
-If, through some incredibly unlikely series of events, you only manage a single PP per scenario, then, yes, you'll find yourself limited to +2 weapons, +3 armor, but I can't believe that anyone actually finds themselves in that position. It'd require almost intentional incompetence (and the bad luck to avoid any scenarios where the secondary is the same as the primary).
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If, through some incredibly unlikely series of events, you only manage a single PP per scenario, then, yes, you'll find yourself limited to +2 weapons, +3 armor, but I can't believe that anyone actually finds themselves in that position. It'd require almost intentional incompetence (and the bad luck to avoid any scenarios where the secondary is the same as the primary).
I can think of one such Goblin Barbarian that fits that bill.
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No 2nd level spell is game breaking even if you have 50 charges.
I don't know, I've known Silence to shut down a lot of caster intensive encounters. Also, you seem to not be considering that new content is frequently added to the campaign, so while there's nothing you can think of that's broken right now, doesn't mean there won't be in the future. In fact there might be something out there that people haven't thought of quite yet.
Also, I think the premise of your concern is somewhat flawed. It's unlikely that the goal of the Fame curve was to make it impossible to have "2nd level wands before 6th" specifically (which as pointed out before isn't the case). It does prevent access to stat belts/headbands prior to 18 fame, which is fine.
As for your point about level 10 characters not having enough wealth for weapons with more than a +2 worth of enchantments... well, you can get a +4 weapon as early as 45 fame which you can achieve around 8th level. Not sure why you think there's a problem getting +2's at 10.
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It sounds like you are aiming more for a fundamental change in how wands (and, if I remember correctly from other threads, how staves) are priced, which is something the organized play campaign rarely tinkers with.
You say that no 2nd-level spell is so game-breaking even if one has 50 charges, and I might agree for some of those spells (e.g. make whole, rope trick, and other utility "unlikely to cast repeatedly" spells). Others seriously upset the expected daily resources of a character by increasing the number of spells available by nearly an order of magnitude. As a result, the wand costs a considerable but reasonable amount to reflect the considerable but reasonable extension of a character's daily resources. Messing with that value is much more of a topic for the Design Team than it is for Mike or me.
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Acedio wrote:Even with its 1-round casting time?Quote:No 2nd level spell is game breaking even if you have 50 charges.I don't know, I've known Silence to shut down a lot of caster intensive encounters.
Yeah haha, I guess in retrospect it's because it was coupled with a quicken :)
So, maybe not a problem at lower levels. Also, it would have 3 round duration (if I'm not mistaken). So maybe that's not so bad. It's still effective if used well.
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Dhenn wrote:If, through some incredibly unlikely series of events, you only manage a single PP per scenario, then, yes, you'll find yourself limited to +2 weapons, +3 armor, but I can't believe that anyone actually finds themselves in that position. It'd require almost intentional incompetence (and the bad luck to avoid any scenarios where the secondary is the same as the primary).I can think of one such Goblin Barbarian that fits that bill.
Said Goblin Barbarian does fit the bill of "intentional incompetence" though.
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Jiggy wrote:Acedio wrote:Even with its 1-round casting time?Quote:No 2nd level spell is game breaking even if you have 50 charges.I don't know, I've known Silence to shut down a lot of caster intensive encounters.Yeah haha, I guess in retrospect it's because it was coupled with a quicken :)
So, maybe not a problem at lower levels. Also, it would have 3 round duration (if I'm not mistaken). So maybe that's not so bad. It's still effective if used well.
Isn't Resist Energy a second level spell? I could see where being able to spam it, if you know what's up, could break encounters easily.
And that doesn't mention that you can still spend PP to buy a scroll with 5 second level spells on it, for 2 PP. I know I have at least one PC who now has a scroll with 5 Lesser Restorations on it. And that can break the game, in some ways, with Blood Money, I think the spell is.
While second level spells, in general, don't break the game as badly as third level spells do, there are still some fairly useful and/or nasty second level spells out there. A wand of Scorching Ray, anyone?
A short list of some ... interesting ... second level spells:
Acid Arrow
Align Weapon
Align Weapon, Communal
Blindness/Deafness
Blur
Burst of Radiance
Create Pit
Darkness
Darkvision
False Life
Ghostbane Dirge
Glitterdust
Grace
Invisibility
Mirror Image
Resist Energy
Scorching Ray
See Invisibility
Silence
Spectral Hand
Web
Not even going past the Wizard, Cleric & a brief look at the Druid spell list on the PRD for 2nd level. And a breaker spell I know of (Burst of Radiance) for Wizards that is second level.