Race: Human alt traits Focused Study (Knowledge Religion), Silver Tongued (+2 to Diplomacy & Bluff, adjust up to 3 steps with Diplomacy)
Class: Oracle (Duel Cursed) Lore revelationStr 7
Dex 7
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 10
Chr 20Traits Tomb Raider (+1 to Perception & K dungeoneering and Perception is a class skill), Irrepressible (Use Chr in place of Wis vs Charm, Compulsion)
Level 1 Feats: Noble Scion (Scion of War: +2 to K Nobility & Use Chr in place of Dex for Init) Skill Focus K Arcane
Secret: Sidestep Secret (Use Chr in place of Dex for AC and Ref saves)
Skills Diplomacy +11 and can adjust by up to 3 steps, K Nature +4, K Religion +4, K Nobility +6, Perception +4
We start out with 20 Chr and attempting to apply it to as many things as possible. AC 20 with studded leather and shield. +5 to my Ref saves, +5 to my Init, +5 to my Will saves vs Charm and Compulsion which is most Will saves. The Getting X to Y guide mentions a feat called Stoic that adds Chr to Fort saves but Stoic doesn't do that so I'm not sure what it refers to. With Silver Tongued I do well as a party face.
At level 3 I'll get the Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) feat for a Green Scorpion and the Misfortune Secret. Init is now +9 and I can force an enemy to reroll a save.
At level 5 Duel Cursed grants me another Secret. By now I'll have at least 1 point in every Knowledge so it is a good time to pick up the Lore Keeper secret to replace Int with Chr for knowledge checks. I'll probably grab the Improved Initiative feat to bump my Init to +13.
I do have a few concerns.
1. I would like Use Magic Device as a class skill but I don't know how to do that short of the Additional Traits feat.
2. I haven't actually played a pure caster before. I'm clearly setting myself up to be a controller and hit the enemies with some save or suck spells but I don't actually know what spells to use.
3. My Fort will suck. Any way to add my Chr to Fort?
4. I need something to do in combat when I run out of spells. Other then Spiked Gauntlet to help flank I won't have any weapons.
5. I'm undecided on what curses to take. The Bestow Curse spell might allow for a combination that is inconvenient to me but devastating to the BBEG. I do know I don't want Wasting since I'll be the party face.
6. Are there any other Archetypes that stack in a beneficial way with Duel Cursed?
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So far the only archetype that I have found that will stack with dual cursed is the seeker archetype. Not worth it, in my opinion.
The only ways to get UMD as a class skill will cost a feat (cosmopolitan will work as well) or by cross classing, or by taking on a prestige class. You have a high charisma... do you really need UMD as a class skill at this point?
Hmm
At level 5 you Can take Divine Protection to get cha to all saves. How that works with sidestep secret i dont know. But i would take the Nature mystery so you Can get cha to CMD instrad. As it is now everybody Can grabble you Down.
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yea…i dunno about dumping str and dex, especially in PFS… you never know what other characters you will have around to rely on.
This seems like a character that will get grappled a lot and fail a lot of checks like climb, and swim.
I see this character drowning, falling or getting grappled to death.
(edit this character would make an excellent target for barbarians to body bludgeon with!)
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At level 5 you Can take Divine Protection to get cha to all saves. How that works with sidestep secret i dont know. But i would take the Nature mystery so you Can get cha to CMD instrad. As it is now everybody Can grabble you Down.
'Divine Protection' was specifically called out as not allowed in PFS play. So, no, at level 5 he can't get that.
At level 5 you Can take Divine Protection to get cha to all saves. How that works with sidestep secret i dont know. But i would take the Nature mystery so you Can get cha to CMD instrad. As it is now everybody Can grabble you Down.'Divine Protection' was specifically called out as not allowed in PFS play. So, no, at level 5 he can't get that.
Ohh ok i am not up to speed on PFS house rules. Feel free to ignore me.
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I am with Pendagast that this character will be really vulnerable. Here are some of the problems that I see:
Armor -- Armor weighs a lot. So do shields. Unfortunately, you need them since you don't have one of those "gosh, it looks like mage armor" revelations in Lore.
Encumbrance -- Even if you eschew armor, you are going to find yourself weighed down. My strength 7 sorcerer only manages to carry her stuff because 90% of it is on her pet. I suppose you could buy a pack dog later, though.
Combat -- Most oracles have some kind of weapon to use when they run out of useful spells. With neither dex nor strength, there will be no weapons you can really use. Sorcerers can get away with low strength and hardly any weapons via two methods -- combat cantrips and wands like magic missile and burning hands, where DCs don't matter.
At later levels, I would pick up Summon Monster as a spell just to give yourself some combat versatility. You could have a wand of it, but those animals will only last one round. Still, it might provide you with a combat thing that always hits and absorbs damage the party might otherwise take.
I did have an odd thought that I wanted to throw at you, and see what you think of it. Have you thought about being a half-elf with the arcane training trait? You would be giving up all your favored class bonuses and the big early plus to diplomacy, but you would keep your bonus skill focus. As a bonus, you would be able to spell trigger all scrolls and wands as if you were a 1st level wizard without multiclassing. You would not even need to take skill points in UMD, since you would be able to trigger all cleric and all wizard spells. (So you would miss out on the bard, paladin and inquisitor specials... but you'd still have 95% of the spell list -- right there.)
You could have a wands or mage armor, shield, magic missile etc.
I do think that it might be a good idea to have 2 PFS characters. This one and another character that might be more well-rounded for times when the party balance is off.
I hope that this helps!
Hmm
So, the build seems to stand on its own synergy wise and build wise, but the question you have to ask yourself is "what are you going to do in battle?" It's a question I have to ask any Oracle of Lore because while they have great defenses, skills, and stat synergies, sometimes I have seen Lore Oracles fishing for what they should be doing in battle, since none of their revelations support such things.
Blackened curse is one answer, as it gives you blast spells if you have nothing else to do. You can also do it with your spell and feat selection. Just something to think about.
So far the only archetype that I have found that will stack with dual cursed is the seeker archetype. Not worth it, in my opinion.
Won't actually work. Dual-cursed removes class skills, seeker also does.
This seems like a character that will get grappled a lot and fail a lot of checks like climb, and swim.
I see this character drowning, falling or getting grappled to death.
Caster specs are gonna get grappled no matter what. If your CMD is 9 or it's 14, a grappling monster, monk, or black tentacles is gonna get you either way.
As for climb checks, swim checks, and other similar checks, there are ways to mitigate some of those. A potion sponge of touch of the sea = swim checks done even at low levels (52 gp). A scroll of levitate can help if you *really* need to make the climb check.
At higher levels of oracle (8+), you can basically make your movement problems go away. Freedom of Movement + Air Walk is a combo that many of my oracles use to cheat their way out of their low physical stats. With a rod of extend, it works out quite well. (And, by the way, Freedom of Movement is excellent on a spontaneous caster. Casting it on the whole party is a quick I have used quite often, and it is surprising how effective it is.)
Oracles are rough at low levels anyway. It's part of the nature of the class.
Armor -- Armor weighs a lot. So do shields. Unfortunately, you need them since you don't have one of those "gosh, it looks like mage armor" revelations in Lore.
Encumbrance -- Even if you eschew armor, you are going to find yourself weighed down. My strength 7 sorcerer only manages to carry her stuff because 90% of it is on her pet. I suppose you could buy a pack dog later, though.
All easily mitigated by the lame curse.
Combat -- Most oracles have some kind of weapon to use when they run out of useful spells. With neither dex nor strength, there will be no weapons you can really use. Sorcerers can get away with low strength and hardly any weapons via two methods -- combat cantrips and wands like magic missile and burning hands, where DCs don't matter.
Have to agree. I have a winter oracle who has low strength and he mitigated it by being the blackened curse and having burning hands. Gave him something to do in battle at low levels. Wand of Ill Omen is also pretty nice for a dual-cursed oracle.
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Yiroep, You're right... Seeker doesn't stack! Oh well, it's a pretty sucky archetype anyway....
I do like the idea of the blackened curse for this character, since s/he won't be able to use weapons anyway. And you are correct that lame solves the other problem with encumbrance. So would lame be the curse that you would choose to not improve? Just curious.
Okay, I this is looking a bit more workable now. It still looks like a glass cannon, but the right two curses make this character a lot better.
Hmm
Fun rule quirk: You can not stack the same stat twice but you can replace and add. So if I take 2 levels of Paladin for the bonus to saves it will stack with Irrepressible and Sidestep.
At 8th level Paladin2/Oracle 6 with a +2 Cloak of Resistance and a +4 to Chr item my saves will be
Fort +15
Ref +20
Will +17 (+25 vs Charm/Compulsion)
Losing 2 levels of spell progression is a big deal but that is some major incentive.
I could even go the Mystery Cultist route which would grant me Glorious aura at 9th level for another +2 to Fort and Ref and +3 to Will.
Basically I think williamoak's Supercha Deveres is on the right track. Though some aspects of it are not PFS legal.
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Okay, I am just going to say it. I don't think that going paladin is going to be worth it for you.
First off, divine grace won't stack with the dexterity bonus you already get with side step. They fixed this in a recent FAQ. If you want CHA to everything, you might as well go Nature so that you have CHA to CMD, all saves, and your AC. At least with nature, you'd get a bright animal -- even if it is a horse or a camel.
Secondly, I don't think going through two levels of Paladin with a str and dex of 7 is going to be that worthwhile. Paladin gives characters all weapon proficiencies in addition to the saves bonus, but your character won't be able to hit much with those stats.
Go straight oracle and be a better caster.
What level are you starting at? Do you have any GM credit?
Hmm
Bonuses don't stack. Using Charisma in place of Dexterity or Wisdom is not a bonus.
I'm starting at level 1.
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Sorry to break the bad news, but it is better to find out before you get to far with your character. Look again.. Paladin divine grace is specifically called out.
Honestly, I think that you would be better off progressing your spellcasting than trying to struggle through two levels of being a paladin with no melee or ranged capability. If you had GM credit, you could just apply the paladin levels and start out at a much higher level when the build gets viable. As is, I think you should go straight oracle.
I notice that you said this is your first caster. Out of curiosity, what happened to the blaster wizard you were building for Emerald Spire? Is that campaign still happening for you?
Hmm
I'd replace the Irrepressible trait for Dangerously Curious. It will also give you UMD, which for you, pretty much opens up every spell in the game. Yay options!
Spell DCs aren't that big of a concern, particularly so when you can use buffs like Heroism and gear to make up any shortfalls. Protection spells are also greatly overlooked for their utility aspects too. That's not even considering the wayfinder/clear spindle ioun stone resonance combo.
The key point is that I'm not stacking 2 bonuses. Sidestep and Irrepressible are not adding bonuses to the saving throws. They are replacing the ability score you use to calculate them. The Paladin's ability is an untyped bonus and does not stack with any other untyped bonus to my saves. If they didn't want it to stack with replacement abilities they should have worded the FAQ better.
I plan to start as the Oracle so I'll have Bless, Ill Omen wand, Command, and some healing. Plus the Chr to AC for survivability.
As for Emerald Spire I realized minutes in that cramped corridors, cramped rooms, and being in the rear of the party was bad news for Burning Hands and Fireball so I defaulted to Arcanist (Occultist) for round 2. I'm not counting those 2 games as experience with casters.
I did some research. The FAQ is poorly worded and lives room to interpretation.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qe32&page=6?What-is-the-meaning-of-source- in-regards-to#286
Mark Seifter's reply is very clear though. That kills that idea. I'll have to rethink the concept.
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I was just coming back with a link, but you beat me to it.
You could still make this work by going with nature's whispers instead, but I think that you might be better off going with a higher strength and slightly lower charisma if you want to go oradin. Or just go straight oracle as a caster.
Hmm