I'm just gonna leave this here for anyone that wants to use it. Grapple is a simple-yet-elegant solution for grabbing onto creatures, but doesn't make a ton of sense when you have a Small Creature grappling a Colossal creature (Bilbo would not stop Smaug from moving if he grabbed onto it).
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Scale
This Combat Maneuver may only be made against monsters whose Size Category is 3 or more greater than your own (for example, a Medium creature may only Scale a monster of Gargantuan or greater size, while a Tiny creature may scale any creature with Large or greater size).
This maneuver takes one of two forms, depending on whether the creature is Long or Tall (for Diminutive and smaller creatures, all creatures Medium and Smaller are considered "Tall"):
Versus Tall (Vertical Scale)
Attempting a Vertical Scale requires a Standard Action which provokes Attacks of Opportunity.
To attempt this maneuver, you must be standing within the creature's space, have at least 1 hand free to grab, and be near enough to a large part of its body to grab onto (usually a leg).
You may make a Vertical Scale check immediately following a standing High Jump Acrobatics check, beginning a number of feet off the ground as appropriate to your High Jump result.
If you do not have 2 hands free to Scale, you suffer a -4 penalty to all Vertical Scale attempts and checks.
If you succeed on your Vertical Scale maneuver, you immediately grab onto the creature. While grabbing onto the creature, you are considered Grappled, except that you may move freely.
While Vertically Scaling, you may perform a Climb check as a Move Action, with the Climb DC equal to the Scaled monster's Combat Maneuver Defense +5. If the creature has scales, thick fur, feathers, a carapace, horns or spikes, or other such objects to easily grab onto, you gain a +5 Circumstance bonus to your Climb check; if the creature has very smooth or slick skin (such as a whale's), you suffer a -5 penalty to your Climb check. Doing so does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity for moving through a creature's Threatened Space.
At the beginning of each turn, you must succeed on another Vertical Scale check to continue hanging on to the creature. This is a Free Action that doesn't provoke Attacks of Opportunity. If you fail by less than 10, you slide straight down the monster for a number of feet equal to the amount by which you failed. If you fail by 10 or more, you fall off the creature entirely, and suffer the appropriate amount of Falling Damage.
If you succeed on a Vertical Scale check to continue hanging onto a creature, you gain a +5 Competence Bonus on your next check to hang on.
Versus Long (Horizonal Scale)
Against a Long creature, you may attempt a Vertical Scale or a Horizontal Scale.
Attempting a Horizontal Scale requires a Move Action that provokes Attacks of Opportunity. This Maneuver may alternatively be made as part Charge, with all bonuses to Hit triggered by Charging also applying to the Combat Maneuver.
To attempt a Horizontal Scale, you must either be in the creature's space or be able to continue a Charge up onto the creature. The creature must also have a large part of its body on the ground which you can walk up (such as a wing or a tail).
When you first succeed on a Horizontal Scale, you move up onto the monster a number of feet equal to half your base movement speed.
While Horizontally Scaling, you may drop Prone as a Free Action as normal.
While Horizontally Scaling, you may make an Acrobatics check as a Move Action to move on the creature as though Crossing Uneven Ground. The DC for such a check is equal to the creature's Combat Maneuver Defense +5.If the creature has scales, thick fur, feathers, a carapace, horns or spikes, or other such objects to easily grab onto, you gain a +5 Circumstance bonus to your Climb check; if the creature has very smooth or slick skin (such as a whale's), you suffer a -5 penalty to your Acrobatics check. Doing so does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity for moving through a creature's Threatened Space.
Alternatively, while Horizontally Scaling, a character with the Rogue Crawl talent and lying prone may crawl across the creature without making an Acrobatics check. Doing so does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity for moving through a creature's Threatened Space.
At the beginning of each turn, you must succeed on a Horizontal Scaling check to remain balanced on the creature. If you fail by less than 10, you slide, to the nearest side of the creature, a number of feet equal to how much by which you failed (if you are directly in the middle of the creature, the DM determines to which side you slide). If this would cause you to fall off, you continue sliding down its side now in a Vertical Scale. If you fail by 10 or more, you tumble off the creature and suffer the appropriate Falling Damage.
If you are lying Prone, you receive a +10 circumstance Bonus to make Vertical Scaling checks to remain balanced on a creature.
Whenever you succeed on a Vertical Scaling check to remain balanced on a creature, you gain a +5 circumstance Bonus on your next Vertical Scaling Check (this bonus stacks with circumstance bonuses to Vertical Scaling checks from lying Prone).
Opposed Scale (Shake Off)
Any creature being Scaled may, as a Standard Action on their turn which provokes Attacks of Opportunity, attempt to Shake Off all creatures Scaling it.
The Scaled creature rolls its Combat Maneuver Bonus and compares it to the Combat Maneuver Defenses of all creatures Scaling it.
If a creature's CMD is beaten by the Scaled creature's Combat Maneuver, that shaken-off creature immediately falls off the Scaled creature and suffers the appropriate Falling Damage.
Additionally, if the Maneuver succeeds by 5 or more, that creature shaken off is also thrown outwards for a number of feet in an appropriate direction (forward, backward, left, or right, based on where the creature was, as determined by the DM).
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Anyway, in practice, this should be about as complex as a typical Grapple. However, this better replicates what actually "climbing" a creature without all the gnarly nonsense of trying to figure out whether you climb, how you climb, what the DC should be, etc.
Maybe I'm not seeing it, but what are the benefits for scaling a monster in this maneuver?
While it may not make sense to you that a small creature could grapple a colossal monster, but I think using bilbo is an unfair comparison. Not all small creatures are like bilbo. Something like a 15th level halfling would be so far apart in power level compared to bilbo that the 15th level halfling can take down an army of bilbos.
Firstly, you're nuts if you think a lv15 can take down an army of anything. lv15s can't even take down a brigade, let alone an army
Secondly, honestly, there is no "benefit" other than to codify how to do something to stop a lot of arguing over how to do this.
I suppose "strategic positioning" would be the benefit, since Grappling doesn't allow movement, but really, that's all I can think of. Most things can't attack the back of their own heads, their backs, etc., so you'd have a safe area to lay waste to a beasty, effectively
People have asked "how can you climb a very-big creature" a few times, and at least twice in so many days.
It's obvious that climbing a creature would be substantially different than trying to climb a wall, since walls typically don't move, and VERY typically don't actively try to kill you.
Some people say it's a grapple. I'm inclined to agree mostly with them, but can understand that even Grapple doesn't accurately represent what's going on there (a GWRD getting -4 to Dex from a medium creature hanging onto its toenail doesn't seem accurate in the least).
Others say it's "Ride" or "Climb" or "Acrobatics," but there's no real consensus on... ANYTHING. The only consensus is "there probably should be rules for this, all things considered," so, here are some that hopefully cover most contingencies, or at least offer a good framework, for such a rule.
Firstly, you're nuts if you think a lv15 can take down an army of anything. lv15s can't even take down a brigade, let alone an army
Secondly, honestly, there is no "benefit" other than to codify how to do something to stop a lot of arguing over how to do this.
I suppose "strategic positioning" would be the benefit, since Grappling doesn't allow movement, but really, that's all I can think of. Most things can't attack the back of their own heads, their backs, etc., so you'd have a safe area to lay waste to a beasty, effectively
People have asked "how can you climb a very-big creature" a few times, and at least twice in so many days.
It's obvious that climbing a creature would be substantially different than trying to climb a wall, since walls typically don't move, and VERY typically don't actively try to kill you.
Some people say it's a grapple. I'm inclined to agree mostly with them, but can understand that even Grapple doesn't accurately represent what's going on there (a GWRD getting -4 to Dex from a medium creature hanging onto its toenail doesn't seem accurate in the least).
Others say it's "Ride" or "Climb" or "Acrobatics," but there's no real consensus on... ANYTHING. The only consensus is "there probably should be rules for this, all things considered," so, here are some that hopefully cover most contingencies, or at least offer a good framework, for such a rule.
Why can't a 15th level take down an army of anything? The mass combat chart in ultimate campaign agrees with me, as well the game's combat mechanics. A group of 1,000 foot soldiers(that is CR 1/3 each, which is probably higher than bilbo)would lose to any decently made 15th level whether it's played using the ACR system or just using the grid like normal.
Anyway, there are always some sort of benefit to combat maneuvers. There was a feat from 3.5 that was posted in another thread like this that made big creatures take a -4 penalty to attacking you if you were climbing it.
Firstly, you're nuts if you think a lv15 can take down an army of anything. lv15s can't even take down a brigade, let alone an army
Secondly, honestly, there is no "benefit" other than to codify how to do something to stop a lot of arguing over how to do this.
I suppose "strategic positioning" would be the benefit, since Grappling doesn't allow movement, but really, that's all I can think of. Most things can't attack the back of their own heads, their backs, etc., so you'd have a safe area to lay waste to a beasty, effectively
People have asked "how can you climb a very-big creature" a few times, and at least twice in so many days.
It's obvious that climbing a creature would be substantially different than trying to climb a wall, since walls typically don't move, and VERY typically don't actively try to kill you.
Some people say it's a grapple. I'm inclined to agree mostly with them, but can understand that even Grapple doesn't accurately represent what's going on there (a GWRD getting -4 to Dex from a medium creature hanging onto its toenail doesn't seem accurate in the least).
Others say it's "Ride" or "Climb" or "Acrobatics," but there's no real consensus on... ANYTHING. The only consensus is "there probably should be rules for this, all things considered," so, here are some that hopefully cover most contingencies, or at least offer a good framework, for such a rule.
Why can't a 15th level take down an army of anything? The mass combat chart in ultimate campaign agrees with me, as well the game's combat mechanics. A group of 1,000 foot soldiers(that is CR 1/3 each, which is probably higher than bilbo)would lose to any decently made 15th level whether it's played using the ACR system or just using the grid like normal.
Anyway, there are always some sort of benefit to combat maneuvers. There was a feat from 3.5 that was posted in another thread like this that made big creatures take a -4 penalty to attacking you if you were climbing it.
ARMY CR and PERSONAL CR are two VASTLY different things.
Also an "army" is generally several thousand individuals at the minimum. a group of 16 soldiers is a CR8 or CR9; 12 such groups is a CR16 encounter, and that's only 192 creatures - at thousands, you're talking well over CR20, and you're going to bite it.
It's amazing what you can do by animating a few apocalypse zombies.
I'm generally in favor of adding more combat maneuvers - anything to lessen the reliance on full-attack-repeat - but it would help if you could cut the word count in half.
ACR and CR aren't too much different. A 1 man army is considered a fine army at -8 ACR, which is why you need to be high level to even have an ACR rating.
Plus, a 6th level fighter with greater cleave and lunge could conceivably end the entire 16 man fight with one standard action, if they are all surrounding him. A same level arcane caster with fireball can end the encounter even easier. Doesn't seem like a CR 8 challenge to me.
There's no way thousands of foot soldiers are going to be CR20+. They would be no match for something like a Thunder Behemoth, which is CR 18. Not only do they need natural 20s to hit it, they can't even bypass its DR at max damage. A better chance of beating a creature like this would be using a level 19 character.
