Hey,
so my group just finished the glassworks. They called for Kendra Deverin, i tried to played her as a very shocked person. She wanted to start directly with the funeral and hear of nothing else.
Playing Ameiko sad was a bit hard for me, i dont think i did that very well.
So the group decided to investigate the smugglers tunnel, and they cleared the catacombs completly, killing everything incredibly fast, including Erylium. They really rushed through it without any drawbacks. Well, ok, our half-orc barbarian got kissed by the Vargouille, but actually, he doesn't rly care (I don't know why lol).
So we stopped in the catacombs and in the next session, they will obviously go back into the town.
But what should happen there? How do the NPC's behave now? What should i do? Should i let Kendra Deverin convoke the Sandpoint council to speak about the recent happening?
How long does it take for Belor Hemlock to return from Magnimar? How can i show the players that the town is kinda... depressed and feared?
I don't know, and i need to get them to Thistletop...
I just don't know how I prepare the behaviour of the NPC's in our next session..
Maybe you can give me some tips :)
I had Mayor Deverin be extremely shocked to find a temple to an evil deity under the town. She immediately made arrangements to have the entire tunnel system collapsed in a safe manner. Under normal circumstances, the party is unlikely to find a way to de-activate or remove the evil artefact down there. (It would probably take Nualia's notes in Thistletop to find out how to de-activate the runewell.)
When Sheriff Hemlock returns from Magnimar depends on what you think is best. It's a hard one-day ride on horseback (with the risk of foundering the horse), or a very easy two-day ride.
Any character (PC or NPC) who was brought up in Sandpoint should recognise Nualia from the portrait in Tsuto's journal. It's also clear from Tsuto's journal that another attack on Sandpoint is being planned there, plus other "unhealthy activities" (including the newly-revealed-as-alive Nualia who is slowly turning herself into a demon).
So - assuming that the party have been responsible citizens and have shown to the authorities all the evidence that they've found - the mayor and the others (Father Zantus, the sheriff, the four local nobles) know that something is still very wrong. If necessary, the mayor and sheriff can ask the party to investigate/clean out Thistletop. But really, the party should be ready to do that anyway.
But what should happen there? How do the NPC's behave now? What should i do? Should i let Kendra Deverin convoke the Sandpoint council to speak about the recent happening?
I don't know, and i need to get them to Thistletop...
It's a good idea to let Kendra speak with townsfolk (it's very unlikely that news about massacre will stay closed). Let her say something cheerful, but do point, that mood of the people isn't going up. Tell players, that a lot of them are trowing at their characters views full of hope. That they don't want another bad times. If players are thinking to wait till Hemlock arrives, approach their characters with Ameiko, and say that maybe it's good time to give a visit to goblins, and teach this green pests a lesson. Avenging the dead from glassworks. Not for her, but for worker families.
Or just let her give them a sack of gold, with mission to take down the goblins that threaten the town."I'm a noble now. And with that I have money and authority to say - don't sit and wait here, even if Hemlock sad this to you. You're local Heroes, and I'm ready to pay for some heroic actions now."
About Catacombs - I played that smuggler tunnels where buried by some dwarf workers invited by Kendra from Magnimar, and the stairs from catacomb complex, that lead to surface, excavated. The complex later was cleared from corpses, purified by father Zantus, and is guarded. Quink was put by Kendra to evaluate it's historic value. The site now is town property only (and thus, property of Magnimar). Runewell was deactivated by players, when they understood how to summon sinspawn from it. If it remains active, I think Kendra and Hemlock will surely put guards there, and call some wizards from Galduria for further help.
How long does it take for Belor Hemlock to return from Magnimar?
It's a 10 hours journey to Magnimar, if you want to get there on the same day (which Hemlock may want very hard). Still, Hemlock may not receive audience with Commander of Magnimar City Guard, if he doesn't leave Sandpoint early in the morning. Arriving at Magnimar at night and trying to muster some backup for Sandpoint - it'll be slow. And even if he'll rest, and try in next day, when commander is at his job - you may throw as much bureaucracy at him as you need, to hold sheriff with reinforcement for few days out of Sandpoint.
By the way, you can use this moment, for Ironbriar get interested in situation like I did. Not in PCs, just whats the fuzz about - even make him the guy, who helps Hemlock get some troops for Sandpoint (let Hemlock later mention this to PCs). When party will defeat Nualia and others, let some guard or the man in charge of reinforcement from Magnimar (assuming Sheriff comes back with them, when the party is at Thisletop) to write a report to Ironbriar. Of course it will contain happy/unhappy text about how a party of mercenaries helped Sandpoint. This is going to make Ironbriar now interested in the party. And if they take alive somebody important from Thisletop, and send them ahead to Magnimar for trial, Ironbriar may speak with convict for further information about PCs. After, he may tell (and I think, he does) Xanesha, aside from other government related information, that there was something interesting in Sandpoint. Xanesha recognizes Nualia, understands that the party may become a threat, and gives command to Ironbriar to deal with them. He invites party to Magnimar, to speak with him and get some additional reward for helping Sandpoint, and after - quietly kill them using his skinsaw cultists.| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
A couple points before I try to answer your questions. No right or wrong answers here - key question is what will help your players and you have fun, be more engaged or entertained, etc. So if you think a particular behavior or response from an NPC fits your players expectations (or doesn't) and will make things more interesting, go for it.
Here is how I approached these issues based on my thinking on how these NPC's would "really" act. It may make sense to you, may fit with what others have done or not. Use as you see fit.
Mayor Deverin is an experienced leader. This is not her first rodeo. She should always be focused on the right priorities for Sandpoint. So while funerals for those slain at the glassworks and the corresponding impact on town morale are important, they pale in comparison to the looming goblin threat, a previously unknown secret entrance directly into the heart of town, and - after talking with Ameiko/seeing Tsuto's journal - whatever craziness Nualia represents.
Even before the events at the Glassworks, the townsfolk should be agitated and afraid. The whole town knows about the goblin attack and everyone knows Hemlock left. Let's repeat that - the town's most experienced fighter left. Most probably know Shalelu has returned from the Wilds way before she might be expected. It doesn't take a genius to figure something bad is happening. The Mayor probably has to tell the townsfolk the truth just to keep panic from sweeping the streets - humans have a bad habit when confronted with the frightening unknown: make up stuff that's way worse. Examples: a 1000 goblins are going to attack at night, agents of Korvosa are using the goblins to destroy Sandpoint as part of a war against Magnimar, the Scarnetti's have recruited the goblins to attack the town in a plot to become Mayor, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria. And after the Glassworks, she won't have any choice - no matter if the pc's and Ameiko stay quiet, there are all those workers who aren't coming home - not many alternatives but the truth to explain that.
Conventional wisdom at this point would be to call out the militia (should already have been done) add additional barricades and defenses to the north gate and bridges and prepare for an attack (and hope Hemlock gets back with reinforcements before it happens or the town is overrun.) But both info from Ameiko and Tsuto's journal make clear this isn't just some goblin tribes uniting for a raid. The succubus and Malfeshnekor references should suggest pretty strongly that really bad stuff is happening at Thistletop and the consequences for Sandpoint may be extreme - waiting for Hemlock is no longer an option. Deverin needs to know what's happening at Thistletop and get it stopped before it gets out of hand. And she has just the right tools for the job. The pc's have proven capable and in a callous assessment, they're expendable. She and most of the town's leading NPC's should encourage the pc's to go there as soon as possible.
When does Hemlock return from Magnimar? He doesn't. At least not until the pc's finish off Thistletop. Even at this point, he's the highest level fighter in the area - if a mission to Thistletop is happening and he's in town, he's going and he's leading. You don't want that. You want the focus on the pc's. Hemlock needs to be caught up in bureaucracy and politics until it doesn't matter. In my campaign he and a contingent of soldiers from Magnimar arrived while the pc's were at Thistletop. When they came back to town carrying their loot, including the giant helmet, the Magnimar guards started harassing them until the Sandpoint guards told them to shut up. I portrayed the Magnimar guards as arrogant, thinking the people of Sandpoint were yokels and they were there to "save" the town, etc. A couple days later I had Hemlock and Shalelu lead the Magnimar force against the Mosswood goblins and give the goblins a good pasting (off camera.) Deverin and Hemlock wanted to send a message to all the local goblins - "Don't let this happen again" and to justify the aid from Magnimar. They don't want a reputation as the town that cries wolf.
Alright; i think with your help, i'm pretty confident now.
When the players get up from the catacombs, I'll let them see how the graveyardguy (forgot his name) is transporting the corpses from the glassworks to the... graveyard or wherever.
When they go outside I want the players to be confronted with the atmosphere in the town. Didn't show that too much before the glassworks. I am not hundred percent sure how i do this, but i'll start with the people standing around the glassworks, i'll try to describe them the emotions the citizens have.
And then, I will just implement your ideas.
Thank you guys very much! :)
Btw, is there a chance for our barbarian to heal the Vargouille-thing? Or will he just die? Because neither Zantus shouldn't be able to prepare the right Spell nor the wizard of the town (Turandarok; or does he?
(sry for the bad english, but i try :D)
Well, my group just talked about the happenings in the campaign in our Whatsapp-group. And i think i've got another problem.
My group is absolutly convinced, that they will be able to protect the town. They know that Hemlock isn't in the town, and they discovered the tunnel beneath Sandpoint.
Their plan right now is to create a defensive line in this tunnel to create a "300-effect" (less people can defend a very thin spot incredibly long). The rest of the goblins are easy to defeat in their opinion.
I should add, that they think that the attack is coming the next day already (or at least in VERY near future).
So they just want to stay in Sandpoint. They know about Thistletop (although they did not talk to anybody about that) but they do not plan to go there. The whole group agrees with defending Sandpoint even without Hemlock and the extraguards.
What if i play this out? Would it be logical that Nualia still attacks Sandpoint (according to her plan), although she doesn't hear anything from Tsuto?
No need to defend the tunnel if it is collapsed.
Does the party have enough respect for the Mayor to do as she asks? (By which I mean: go to Thistletop.)
Ye, that's true, but they could convince the Mayor NOT to blow up the tunnel. (They COULD.)
They don't have that much respect for her. But I still think they would do it. But they wouldn't do it, when there is no reason for them. I need to convince them (as the mayor or ameiko or whoever), i guess.
First on the Vargouille - by the book, the barbarian should be finished. 4-24 (4d6) hours after the kiss, he transforms into a vargouille himself. Sunlight pauses (but does not prevent the process - it starts again at sundown or if he goes inside) and remove diseaase fixes it. Perversely, as far as I can tell, no one in Sandpoint is high enough level to cast it (there is no cleric, druid or ranger who can cast 3rd level spells.) A rather wicked design element if you ask me. You need to determine whether you think having the barbarian die in this fashion would disrupt the campaign, alienate the player, etc. If/when it happens, it probably should push the townsfolk into complete hysteria. I suggest you either a) bump Zantus (or perhaps Mvashti) to a 5th level caster (for Mvashti all you have to do is flip her levels from 3rd druid/4th sorc/1 theurge to 4th druid/3rd sorc/1 theurge and voila! she casts as a 5th level druid) or b) you have the temple or one of the magic shops or a noble house have a potion of remove disease. In either case, whoever has the ability to save the barbarian should barter that salvation in return for the group investigating Thistletop.
There's nothing wrong with them assuming an attack is imminent and they can certainly prepare and wait for a day or two (while the barbarian's head rips from his torso.) There is no timetable provided in the AP for an attack from Nualia nor even the details on how it would work. The explicit assumption is the pc's go to Thistletop before it happens regardless of how long after the Catacombs they depart.
But I'm struggling to understand why they don't want to go to Thistletop. Could there be a language barrier here? Did the group recover Tsuto's journal? Can they read it? The journal makes clear that the plan involved using the creatures from the Catacombs in addition to a land assault by the goblins. Even if they can hold the tunnels "300-like" it won't do anything about attacks over the bridges or at the gates. Not to mention that the pc's have already slain everything in the Catacombs. And what should be even more alarming are the references to freeing something called "Malfeshnekor" from the "lower levels." And the reference in the journal is that once that happens "they won't need to be subtle" - meaning it hasn't happened YET. Other than writing the words "You should go to Thistletop RIGHT NOW to prevent this" directly on the hand-out, I don't know how much clearer it could be.
Yeah, it's a bit hard to understand your players' motivations here.
What does defending the tunnels do? The goblins do not plan on attacking the tunnels. They plan on attacking the town, which will mostly be an overland assault. The creatures that were going to attack the town from below have already been killed by the players.
You could have some goblin scouts infiltrate the town from above, trying to burn down the guardhouse while the players are "hiding" in the tunnels below. After that it should be apparent that hanging out in the tunnels doesn't help defend the city at all.
A quick survey of the defenses of the town should illustrate how vulnerable the town is. There are no gates on the bridges, the forest grows right up to the wall, and the river is shallow and sluggish and easily swum. In fact, the town is designed (from a story point of view) in such a way that it cannot feasibly be defended, not against a concentrated assault.
If they insist on remaining in Sandpoint, here's what I might do:
1. Let them find some more catacombs below Sandpoint, to give them the chance to level up once more. Maybe the adventure from Wayfinder #7, or make something up. Also this will give them some more magic items to play with.
2. As they emerge from the caverns, Sandpoint is under attack. This would work a lot like "Festival and Fire" with separate incidents happening all over town.
* One with Bruthazmus leading a group of goblins.
* Another with Lyrie, Orik (and Tsuto if he lived) and some goblins (possibly going south to sack the noble houses on the point),
* and the finale with Malfeshnekor and Nualia leading a group of goblins, using Malfeshnekor's nvisibility sphere to make groups of goblins invisible to wreak havoc. Give them a chance to kill these people in Sandpoint.
Despite the player's intervention, about half the town should be destroyed. If the players are having trouble, the "cavalry" could come in the form of aid from Magnimar.
The survivors of the attack plan to rebuild Sandpoint, though this will be hard as winter will shortly arrive. Many natives will leave for Magnimar and other places. Some of the people will accuse the players of "hiding in the catacombs" instead of defending the town.
The lesson will be that it is better to go on the offense than to wait for the enemy to come to you.
First on the Vargouille - ... remove disease fixes it. Perversely, as far as I can tell, no one in Sandpoint is high enough level to cast it ...
BTW, This is not true.
None of the named NPCs have 3rd level spells, but according to the town's stat block up to 4th level spellcasting is available in Sandpoint. So they just have to pay for it to be done.
My group is absolutly convinced, that they will be able to protect the town.
They're as good as dead. Nualia doesn't come with 20-30 goblins, she's coming with a horde of 200-300 goblins. I estimated that Birdcrunchers tribe was minimum 50 goblins, and that's the smallest tribe out of five of them. Mosswood tribe may consist of half or a dozen of such "families" (in addition to Seven Tooth and Thisletop tribes). Nualia and Malf will muster almost any goblin capable for fighting in their "army" (which means that only goblin kids, crippled ones and elders would remain home). And that's not all - from different sources describing Hinterlands, Nualia can have a dozen of Bruthazmus bugbear friends to help her (or even Kodlaks from The Pitt), one faceless stalker, tribe of harpys. Even a pair of ogres and Sandpoint Devil as her mount! And this horde, even consisting from goblins only, will certainly come to burn the town from various directions, not only by tunnels.
Seriously, approach them with Ameiko and Shalelu. Let the last tell them that all goblin tribes are preparing to siege Sandpoint, and such massive assault cannot be repealed without dire casualties, even when prepared. The only good option - to cut take out the "head". And if they still have doubts, just let Ameiko offer them money for getting job done.Or you can pull something like Gandalf's arrival with rohan cavalry at Helms Deep with Hemlock, to save the day and town. It could be epic, but a lot of townsfolk will get killed, with houses burned all around. But after, Hemlock is free to order the party, to go to Thisletop, and find Nualia (who certainly will escape there).
I had this situation myself, when players didn't fully understand why they must go to Thisletop. But one of them, being experienced, just sad "Well, it's obviously raillroad, but let's not spoil GMs work. If we're expected to go there, lets try to roleplay it in a good way". So my problem was solved.
I had Shalelu send a message to the Mayor from the fringes of Mosswood, saying that the Mosswood goblins were getting ready to send a force to join the Thistletop goblins, who seemed to be in charge. She was delaying the Mosswoods by sniping and laying traps, but the message basically said that the leaders of Thistletop had to be dealt with before the Mosswood goblins arrived. The players took the bait.
BTW My estimates for the sizes of the goblin tribes were (in terms of how many goblins could take the field):
Birdcrunchers: 20
Seven Tooth: 30
Thistletop: 50
Licktoad: 50
Mosswood: 100
For a total of 250 potential goblin hostiles.
Note though that in the module there are less Thistletop goblins than this (maybe the others were "not home" when the players arrive); I added more on the lower level to try to beef them up. By that time the players mopped the floor with them.
I think, I'll just play out the next session.
Actually, there are enough people in Sandpoint that are smart enough to realize, that this attack is not defendable.
Additionaly, as you said, i can just send Shalelu back to the town (she is observing the goblin tribes right now), the players trust her (they like her pretty much) and i think they will believe Shalelu when she says that it's the best option to go to Thistletop.
Btw, i don't understand their motivation too. But i don't want to interrupt them in their considerations..
First on the Vargouille - ... remove disease fixes it. Perversely, as far as I can tell, no one in Sandpoint is high enough level to cast it ...BTW, This is not true.
None of the named NPCs have 3rd level spells, but according to the town's stat block up to 4th level spellcasting is available in Sandpoint. So they just have to pay for it to be done.
Yea... But that's just the number in the GMG for a "small town." That would mean somewhere in town there's a 7th level caster that isn't important enough to mention in an 18 page write-up that mentions at least 12 other characters with spell-casting levels. Does that mean you can get any 4th level spell you want, arcane or divine from any sourcebook? Sure it's according to the rules and you can hand-wave all you want but someone needs to cast it, and the DM has to know and likely describe who that is. And explain why that character isn't doing more to help with the many challenges Sandpoint is and will be facing.
Yea... But that's just the number in the GMG for a "small town."
No, it's the number in the actual statblock for Sandpoint in the AE edition of RotRL. It's in the second appendix.
The most powerful caster in Sandpoint is probably the head of the Turandarok academy... who is never named.
The most powerful caster in Sandpoint is probably the head of the Turandarok academy... who is never named.
He is named. Ilsoari Gandethus, retired adventurer and headmaster of academy/orphanage. And while he has 4 levels of wizard, plus two of rogue, he isn't the most powerful caster around. It's Niska Mvashti (in caster level boundaries) - 3 lvl druid/4 lvl sorcerer/1 mystic theurge. And she's very, very old. Even her daughter is an old lady now.
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Yea... But that's just the number in the GMG for a "small town."No, it's the number in the actual statblock for Sandpoint in the AE edition of RotRL. It's in the second appendix.
The most powerful caster in Sandpoint is probably the head of the Turandarok academy... who is never named.
Um, the guy in charge is named Ilsoari Gandethus. He's Wiz 4/Rog 2. Probably was headed towards arcane trickster or something while he was an adventurer. I decided that his arcane bond was his mystic athame, and if he ever got into combat, he'd sneak attack a baddie, just to help confuse the party.
Yea... But that's just the number in the GMG for a "small town."No, it's the number in the actual statblock for Sandpoint in the AE edition of RotRL. It's in the second appendix.
The most powerful caster in Sandpoint is probably the head of the Turandarok academy... who is never named.
No. It is the spell level for a small town which the writer of the AP copied over from the "template" data from the GMG. Without thinking about what it means for the Sandpoint writeup- at least that's my interpretation.
As other posters have said, the head of Turandarok academy is stated and can only cast 2nd level spells. And drifting into snarky, even if he was high enough level, remove disease (the spell at the origin of this sub-topic) is not on any arcane spell list. The most "powerful" spellcaster in the writeup is most likely Madame Mvashti and she's only a "5th level" sorceror and can't even cast 3rd level spells.
There's no right or wrong answer here. You want to go by the town write-up and assume there is some unnamed caster that can cast remove disease? Great. You want to stipulate there are potions or scrolls Zantus can try to use? Also great. You want to bump an NPC up to sufficient level (making Zantus 5th would be enough)? Also great. You want to create a new NPC in town that is high enough level? Also great. You want to run the town per the NPC writeups and not the town stat block - meaning there is no one who can cast Remove Disease? Also great. Each GM has to decide which works best for his campaign and group of players.
Well, i mean, they don't know, what Malfeshnekor is. And they neither got an idea of the possible power of a demon (or what Nualia wants to be).
I will let Father Zantus have a Remove Disease Scroll in storage, just like Kalshane did.
The player who got bitten absolutly LOVES his character, so i don't want him to die to be honest.
What is the DC for this disease? (I'm talking about the Remove Disease Spell)
Another Thing:
Where does the smugglers tunnel lead to? I know about the catacombs and about the exit to the sea. But the long part, leading out of Sandpoint? where does it end?
The exit to the sea is at the end of the long part, leading out of Sandpoint. The description in the book is not the best, but I found some fan-made Sandpoint maps which helped clear things up. I'll try to find the link ...
Edited to add: Here's the link to the post with three really useful maps.
Well, i mean, they don't know, what Malfeshnekor is. And they neither got an idea of the possible power of a demon (or what Nualia wants to be).
I will let Father Zantus have a Remove Disease Scroll in storage, just like Kalshane did.
The player who got bitten absolutly LOVES his character, so i don't want him to die to be honest.What is the DC for this disease? (I'm talking about the Remove Disease Spell)
I used DC 16 (from the vargouille's Kiss ability).
No. It is the spell level for a small town which the writer of the AP copied over from the "template" data from the GMG. Without thinking about what it means for the Sandpoint writeup- at least that's my interpretation.
This complaint is like saying "yeah, they only did that because it's in the rules."
The original AP was written for 3.5 which had similar systems for determining what could be found in a town of this size, so I don't think this changes anything. The assumptions were already there.
It always seemed to me that the levels of the listed NPCs in town were "dumbed down" to allow the 1st level player-characters to shine in the goblin raid. If there are too many high-level NPCs with PC class levels then there isn't much need for the PCs to get involved.
To make this consistent, though, you just need to include some "shut-in" type NPCs who wouldn't be likely to get involved, or boost the level of the listed NPCs, possibly over time.
I for one never assumed that Father Zantus was the most powerful cleric in town; rather, he is the most qualified to be the head of the church, which means a high INT for skill points and a high CHA for dealing with the public. Neither of these things are necessary for a character of the cleric class, but would lead to him being selected to represent the church to the public. This is not 1st edition, where the highest level guy is automatically in charge.
I envisioned a character like a crabby old priest of Abadar who doesn't get out much and nobody particularly likes, but he's been there forever and nobody has the heart to get rid of him. This particular guy would be 7th level and able to get 4th level spells if necessary, but being a priest of Abadar, would insist that they are paid for. "It's the principle of the thing, you know."
Strictly speaking, there is also a 75% chance that a scroll of remove disease is simply available for sale in the marketplace somewhere.
Good catch to Misroi and Ashkar about Ilsoari Gandethus; serves me right for not checking. Though you have to wonder how this guy got the job... he doesn't seem especially qualified, unless he got the job under false pretenses. Being part rogue I suppose that is possible.
However, the point about Zantus also applies here. Are there other instructors at the school? Gandethus is the headmaster, not a teacher; headmasters typically do not host classes. Also, though Gandethus is a wizard, there is no need to assume that arcane magic is the only type of magic taught at the academy.
All in all, it really doesn't stretch things much to assume that there are some casters in town who are higher level than those who are featured. A few dozen people out of a thousand are mentioned; there are going to be others who are also interesting.
On the other hand, to assume that remove disease cannot be found in Sandpoint is assuming that the Vargouille's disease is intended to give players a real one roll save-or-die at 2nd level. I feel that this is a bit extreme for this type of module.