Morale Bonus and Penalty Same TIme, Which takes precedence

[Marko]

In this case, I'm speaking specifically of a Paladin with the Power of Faith and a Skald who is using his Raging Song. Unlike the bard, which is a flat bonus, the Skald increases Str and Con by +2, and AC is decreased by -1. The power of Faith ability from the paladin is more in line with the bard, giving a flat +1 bonus to attack and damage, as well as a +1 to AC. Both can do more but this is the focus of the discussion. So too clarify...

Skald- Raging Song
+2 Str
+2 Con
-1 AC

Paladin
+1 Attack
+1 Damage
+1 AC

The question is, what happens if both are up at the same time, in regards to the AC of those affected? Since they are both morale bonuses they would not stack (And thus not cancel out? I'm not certain). So mechanically, by those rules of stacking, a player gets one of them. Does it default to the better? The worse? If so, where does it say so?

[blackbloodtroll]

Where is Power of Faith from?

Nevermind. Found it.

[SwiftyKun]

You pretty much have it right. The effects overlap but do not stack. The AC would negate eachother out(assuming both effects are happening at the same time or the per rounds are overlapping) and the bonuses that are different would apply as normal.

If you were to apply both of those effects to a single target, the target would get +2 Str, +2 Con, +1 attack, and +1 damage. The AC cancels itself out so it isn't applied. (+1 and -1 to AC)

To Clarify, the reason why it overlaps but does not stack is because all parts of the ability are morale bonuses. It isn't just "A single morale bonus" blanket effect, it's "Morale bonuses" from this effect.

[blackbloodtroll]

First off, the penalty is untyped.

Second, the morale bonus to strength changes the bonus to melee attack/damage, but not directly, as Power of Faith does.

[Gabriel Leoni]

Black, the bonus and penalty use the same type.

And overlapping sounds like stacking. XD It seems like we would have to pick one by the rules, since both penalties can't apply.

[blackbloodtroll]

The penalty is not listed as typed.

I play a Skald, and know the class well enough to tell you that.

Second, the morale bonus is to strength, and not attacks.

Thus, the morale bonus is not directly applied to the roll.

Power of Faith won't stack with Heroism, but it will stack with Rage, and Raging Song.

[Ascalaphus]

Are penalties ever typed?

[Starglim]

Ascalaphus wrote:

Are penalties ever typed?

Getting started

Quote:

Penalties do not have a type and most penalties stack with one another.

An exception being penalties applied more than once by the same effect.

[Ascalaphus]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[blackbloodtroll]

Ascalaphus wrote:

Are penalties ever typed?

Usually, no.

[Rikkan]

Starglim wrote:

Quote:

Penalties do not have a type and most penalties stack with one another.

An exception being penalties applied more than once by the same effect.

Going to disagree there. The magic section is only talking about penalties caused by spells.

Otherwise the penalties you gain from ability score damage wouldn't stack either (and that would make no sense)

[blackbloodtroll]

Rikkan wrote:

Starglim wrote:

Quote:

Penalties do not have a type and most penalties stack with one another.

An exception being penalties applied more than once by the same effect.

Going to disagree there. The magic section is only talking about penalties caused by spells.

Otherwise the penalties you gain from ability score damage wouldn't stack either (and that would make no sense)

Ah, but haven't you seen the new FAQ?

Those could be multi-source penalties, and as thus, they are "typed" untyped penalties, and therefore, do not stack.