I'm thinking of these Magus Arcanas when I hit level 6+ and wanted some advice on them from people who play Magi or know more about the rules of the Arcanas.
There are 2 Swashbuckler like Arcana's and I wanted to know if they were worth taking? Particularly the 2nd swashbuckler arcana called Arcane Deed.
When you gain the Swashbuckler ones available, and the 2nd one (Arcane Deed), it says the following:
Arcane Deed:
Prerequisite(s) Flamboyant arcana
Benefit(s) When a magus takes this arcana, he can pick any one deed from the swashbuckler class feature as long as that deed can be used by a swashbuckler of his magus level. The magus can use that deed by using points from his arcane pool as the panache points required for that deed. A magus can take this arcana multiple times, each time gaining a new deed.
Is the Magus treated the same as the Swashbuckler for level abilities? So would a level 6+ Magus be treated as a level 6+ Swashbuckler for the Precise Strike ability if I took that deed with Arcane Deed?
Yes your understanding of the rule is correct and that mechanic is common in a number of archetypes and classes that mimic another classes abilities.
There has been the occasional argument bandied about saying that because the Magus lacks the specific text that their Magus level is treated as their Swashbuckler level Precise Strike doesn't work for them. It's... a difficult argument to support, but it's been made.
So checking with your GM couldn't hurt. But the overwhelmingly common consensus has been that Swash level = Magus level = Precise Strike is awesome.
kestral287 wrote: It's... a difficult argument to support, Because Precise Strike is just so absurdly, giddily powerful for the Magus aficionado?
I'm mostly teasing. It's probably a mistake that it isn't there, but when x level = y level it's stated in the text, and it isn't here. People like to assume that the developers' intent lines up with what they want, but it's not impossible the development team looked at it and said "hey, if we leave that clause out it still works for almost everything, but they can't go and cheese Precise Strike!"
Well, actually mostly because the Daring Champion was released at the same time, explicitly gets Precise Strike as a class ability (rather than having to jump through a few hoops for it), and also lacks the x level = y level.
That makes me think it's oversight rather than intentional, coming more from the fact that the ACG was not exactly the best edited book in existence. Contending that the Magus doesn't get Precise Strike means explaining why the Daring Champion does (difficult, given that they both lack the key wording) or arguing that the Daring Champion was explicitly given a class ability it wasn't meant to be able to actually use (also difficult).
But yes, Precise Strike is crazy good and gets my Magus-Lover Stamp of Approval.
Also it means a lot of deeds act really oddly.
I'm thinking I'll be picking those Arcana's up when I get the chance.
I was considering taking these feats before I found those Swashbuckler like Arcanas.
Power Attack, Hurtful, Enforcer, Intimidating Prowess along with my already Bruising Intellect trait.
I could use Frostbite with spellcombat/spellstrike, to do 1d6 nonlethal along with weapon damage, then get my free spellcombat attack, then make a Enforcer free Intimidate check to trigger hopefully my Hurtful feat, netting a Swift Action melee attack. Assuming of course that I still have a swift action left.
Personally, I really don't like Power Attack for the Magus. You can't effectively two-hand and you don't have full BAB, so the damage boost isn't great, and it cuts into your accuracy, which really sucks when you do that as a matter of course.
kestral287 wrote: Personally, I really don't like Power Attack for the Magus. You can't effectively two-hand and you don't have full BAB, so the damage boost isn't great, and it cuts into your accuracy, which really sucks when you do that as a matter of course. Yeah I was going to go that route, but saw some of the new arcana stuff and decided against it. I think I'll start going the Swashbuckler deed route instead, and get feats accordingly.
I usually don't like power attack for Magus either but an extra attack with your swift action potentially at your highest bonus is pretty nice payoff for a ok Magus feat.
I'd say RAW you don't have a swashbuckler level so you add 0 to the hit.
RAI probably is that magus level counts as swashbuckler level for the deeds.
Hurtful does conflict with swift actions, though it's so good it's possibly worth all the trouble anyhow. Using Enforcer with Blade of Mercy works, but technically you can't use Enforcer with Frostbite since there's a distinction between dealing damage with a weapon and dealing damage with a spell delivered through a weapon. Otherwise, Dazing Magic Weapon would work...
So you could still use Blade of Mercy trait to do a Spellstrike/combat Shocking Grasp and the spell part is real but weapon damage would be nonlethal, still letting me get the free spell-strike/combat attack and the swift action attack... that is a lot better than using Frostbite IMO anyway.
Bad part is losing all those dang feats to get that chain going.
There is stage combatant. The issue I have with the RAW interpretation is that most deeds really do not work, and honestly riposte is nowhere near as good for a Magus due to 3/4 BAB and the resource used for it not recharging.
BadBird wrote: Hurtful does conflict with swift actions, though it's so good it's possibly worth all the trouble anyhow. Using Enforcer with Blade of Mercy works, but technically you can't use Enforcer with Frostbite since there's a distinction between dealing damage with a weapon and dealing damage with a spell delivered through a weapon. Otherwise, Dazing Magic Weapon would work... I have seen GM's go either way on the enforcer, frostbite combo so it is a YMMV type deal.
David Neilson wrote: The issue I have with the RAW interpretation is that most deeds really do not work... I may have missed something, but I see no reference to Swashbuckler level from a deed before level 19, besides Precise Strike and what level Rogue can beat the improved uncanny dodge from Evasive.
As much as I like the general concept of the Magus using deeds, I find Precise Strike to be a bit much, and I wonder if - just maybe - the writers did as well. Being able to stroll in and grab *the* defining feature of the Swashbuckler with a 2-arcana chain is just goofy. I mean, level to damage is incredibly powerful, and is restricted to the Swashbuckler class, a Cavalier archetype that dumps mounts, a Prestige Class... oh and any Magus that has a couple arcana to blow. Because, you know, there wasn't enough of a pull towards one-handed dex-to-damage Magi before, and besides they obviously need help with damage. Just make sure the Rogue can't get it!
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