Brawler build help


Advice


I'm building a Kathasa sa brawler but I'm not sure of what the build will be. Its stats will be sorry the array of stats I will be using will be 18, 18, 16, 16, 14, 12. this is for the iron gods Adventure Path. I have another question as well would I need to pick up Multi weapon fighting or does a kathasa automatically replace 2 weapon fighting with it.

I don't know if I'm going to go with the base brawler or one of the archetypes. If I do go with one of the archetypes which one should I go with. Any help with feats, racial traits would be a great help


And that brings up one of the problems of having brawlers flurry explicitly giving TWF.

I would lean towards no, since brawler's flurry works....oddly. Technically, you can make all of the attacks with a single weapon, which means that a 1 armed person has as many attacks a a 2 armed one (let's assume they are using brass knuckles; kicks and headbutts make this complicated). So I question whether having more arms helps

There is also the fact that you are allowed to use 2 handed weapons (bayonet, a few monk weapons you aren't usually proficient with like the temple sword). And going off of the rulings involved with flurry of blows, those attacks would get 1.5x power attack damage. That brings in direct balance problems as you get more attacks with all that power attack (usually with multiweapon fighting, those attacks would only ever get 0.5x power attack, even if they got full STR bonus from double slice)

I am honestly unsure how this works out. I just bring up the concerns this brings up. Consult your GM (he might be cool with it- he presumably let you pick Kathasa in the first place, right?)

I am pretty sure that picking up the feat yourself would not help though, since brawler's flurry is its own full round action that has its own restrictions and rules (only need 1 weapon, no natural attacks can be added, you can only use certain kinds of weapons, etc). So it all depends on how he rules flurry itself interacts with arms.


lemeres wrote:

And that brings up one of the problems of having brawlers flurry explicitly giving TWF.

I would lean towards no, since brawler's flurry works....oddly. Technically, you can make all of the attacks with a single weapon, which means that a 1 armed person has as many attacks a a 2 armed one (let's assume they are using brass knuckles; kicks and headbutts make this complicated). So I question whether having more arms helps

There is also the fact that you are allowed to use 2 handed weapons (bayonet, a few monk weapons you aren't usually proficient with like the temple sword). And going off of the rulings involved with flurry of blows, those attacks would get 1.5x power attack damage. That brings in direct balance problems as you get more attacks with all that power attack (usually with multiweapon fighting, those attacks would only ever get 0.5x power attack, even if they got full STR bonus from double slice)

I am honestly unsure how this works out. I just bring up the concerns this brings up. Consult your GM (he might be cool with it- he presumably let you pick Kathasa in the first place, right?)

I am pretty sure that picking up the feat yourself would not help though, since brawler's flurry is its own full round action that has its own restrictions and rules (only need 1 weapon, no natural attacks can be added, you can only use certain kinds of weapons, etc). So it all depends on how he rules flurry itself interacts with arms.

Multiweapon Fighting replaces two weapon fighting for people with 2 arms. And my GM said the other feats in the 2 weapon fighting chain would apply to multiweapon fighting.

This multi-armed creature is skilled at making attacks with multiple weapons.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, three or more hands.

Benefit: Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by –2 with the primary hand and by –6 with off hands.

Normal: A creature without this feat takes a –6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a –10 penalty on attacks made with all of its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook.

Special: This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.


Again, it is complicated since brawler's flurry, much like flurry of blows, has special circumstances and clauses.

As I noted, you can do brawler's flurry with only 1 weapon (and you could do it with 1 hand tied behind your back), instead of 2, if you so choose. And you can also use a 2 handed weapon (And get 2 handed power attack on each hit).

There is also the fact that brawler's flurry is not a normal full attack, but its own unique full round action. If I was being difficult, I could argue that its language forces TWF on you, even if you would normally get multiweapon fighting.

Let's not get into this- Just discuss it with your GM, since this is not the rules forum, and this intersection of nonstandard player characters and class abilities is something that is hard to make any kind of official judgement on.

Let's be constructive- what kind of style are you going for? Unarmed? Brassknuckles/similar close weapons? Bayonet? Monk weapons? Are you focused on any particular maneuvers? A lot of these determine which archetypes might be appropriate for your character (since it determines which class features are important to you)


9 ring broad sword and slashing grace, and I was willing to take 4 of them so all my hands would be full.

Sovereign Court

wintersrage wrote:
9 ring broad sword and slashing grace, and I was willing to take 4 of them so all my hands would be full.

Of note - unless you dip into swashbuckler or daring cavalier, you'll get dex to damage, but not on your to-hit roll.


I was taking a dip into swashbuckler to get swashbuckler finesse


wintersrage wrote:
9 ring broad sword and slashing grace, and I was willing to take 4 of them so all my hands would be full.

Oh, so brawler's strike and close weapon mastery are fairly expendable. That opens up things a bit.

Steel Breaker is a decent enough archetype. It takes the martial artist monk's main trick- it can ignore DR or hardness if you just pass a wisdom check (10+ CR or hardness vs. WIS+your level on the check), while gaining a +2 to attacks. Alternatively, you can get a scaling 1/2 level bonus to sense motive, reflex throws, and dodge bonus to AC against 1 opponent (only takes a swift action, so doing it constantly during social situation means you will rarely be tricked). The archetype also focuses on sundering, if that is your thing.


My thoughts;

1. FInesse is a thing that helps low point buy systems. If you have really high stats as you have posted, I recommend AGAINST FInesse. You are much better off using a Bayonet and using STR-to-damage.

2. High wisdom encourages Steel-Breaker, but Sundering your new loot can be a problem. If it isn't a problem FOR YOU, use the archetype.

3. Multiweapon Fighting HAS NO BEARING on a Brawler. Brawler's Flurry is meant to use a single weapon with multiple attacks. I would forget that plan.

4. If you do go Bayonet, Power Attack is your friend.

Sovereign Court

Secret Wizard wrote:
2. High wisdom encourages Steel-Breaker, but Sundering your new loot can be a problem. If it isn't a problem FOR YOU, use the archetype.

It's not that big of a deal as long as you have a wizard or sorceror with the Make Whole spell. Sure - you can't use the gear immediately, but past the first few levels magic gear you pick up likely isn't great for your characters anyway.


Secret Wizard wrote:

My thoughts;

1. FInesse is a thing that helps low point buy systems. If you have really high stats as you have posted, I recommend AGAINST FInesse. You are much better off using a Bayonet and using STR-to-damage.

2. High wisdom encourages Steel-Breaker, but Sundering your new loot can be a problem. If it isn't a problem FOR YOU, use the archetype.

3. Multiweapon Fighting HAS NO BEARING on a Brawler. Brawler's Flurry is meant to use a single weapon with multiple attacks. I would forget that plan.

4. If you do go Bayonet, Power Attack is your friend.

Well, he planned to get the 9 ring sword via martial weapon proficiency anyway. So even if he planned to go with 2 handed power attack, he would do well enough with that monk weapon.

While there is an argument that the bayonet is stronger in that role due close weapon mastery's scaling damage dice, but that comes late enough to not matter much- the bayonet's damage dice are large enough that it doesn't do much until well into their career. Comparing that with the flavor of wielding a bunch of swords in a whirlwind of blades vs. using gun based weapons...without guns... I can understand the preference.


lemeres wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:

My thughts;

1. FInesse is a thing that helps low point buy systems. If you have really high stats as you have posted, I recommend AGAINST FInesse. You are much better off using a Bayonet and using STR-to-damage.

2. High wisdom encourages Steel-Breaker, but Sundering your new loot can be a problem. If it isn't a problem FOR YOU, use the archetype.

3. Multiweapon Fighting HAS NO BEARING on a Brawler. Brawler's Flurry is meant to use a single weapon with multiple attacks. I would forget that plan.

4. If you do go Bayonet, Power Attack is your friend.

Well, he planned to get the 9 ring sword via martial weapon proficiency anyway. So even if he planned to go with 2 handed power attack, he would do well enough with that monk weapon.

While there is an argument that the bayonet is stronger in that role due close weapon mastery's scaling damage dice, but that comes late enough to not matter much- the bayonet's damage dice are large enough that it doesn't do much until well into their career. Comparing that with the flavor of wielding a bunch of swords in a whirlwind of blades vs. using gun based weapons...without guns... I can understand the preference.

I actually changed mind I'm going to go with Scizore it's a close weapon and does a d 10 damage so it will get the close weapon be if it from brawler.


Cool. Don't waste a feat in weapon finesse, just get a good strength. Get your first feats in attack increases, such as Weapon Focus, and then Dodge and Mobility, to get Anticipate Dodge as needed.


Secret Wizard wrote:
Cool. Don't waste a feat in weapon finesse, just get a good strength. Get your first feats in attack increases, such as Weapon Focus, and then Dodge and Mobility, to get Anticipate Dodge as needed.

wouldn't it be better if I just had to worry about Dex and not strength for hit and damage so it would be Dex for hit, damage, reflex, and Armor class.


Not really. Finesse is there for low point builds which can't afford to have both high strength and dexterity, you have ridiculous stats so that's no concern for you. I think you are better off getting feats to jump start your build.


That's the problem I'm not sure what I want to build him to be. I'm lost other then him being a kashata and a Brawler.


Choose one:
- Tanking
- Disabling
- Damage
- Team buffing

I'll tell you what to go next.


Secret Wizard wrote:

Choose one:

- Tanking
- Disabling
- Damage
- Team buffing

I'll tell you what to go next.

I'm going to build a damage character so any help on that front I know I need to pick up power attack and weapon focus and for that matter if I hqve extra feats i qould get weapon specialization. but I'm not sure what to take beyond that.


Can a scizore be welded 2 handed or would I be better off wielding 4 of them as I am a kathasa.

Sovereign Court

wintersrage wrote:
Can a scizore be welded 2 handed or would I be better off wielding 4 of them as I am a kathasa.

It can be two-handed since it's not a light weapon by RAW. (seems kinda silly though)

I will ask - is your GM houseruling to allow the brawler's flurry to count as multiweapon fighting with your kathasa? Perhaps requiring you to use two weapons instead of the usual 1?

If he isn't doing some such houserule - a brawler or monk seem to be just a poor choice for a kathasa since multiweapon fighting is the main reason to play a race with more than two arms, and flurry is one of the main reasons to play monk/brawler.


wintersrage wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:

Choose one:

- Tanking
- Disabling
- Damage
- Team buffing

I'll tell you what to go next.

I'm going to build a damage character so any help on that front I know I need to pick up power attack and weapon focus and for that matter if I hqve extra feats i qould get weapon specialization. but I'm not sure what to take beyond that.

Mutagenic Mauler is what you want to play, perhaps combined with Steel-Breaker.

Get all the weapon feats, PA, Furious Focus, the Anticipate Dodge line, and the maneuver feats for disarm and sunder.


Secret Wizard wrote:
wintersrage wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:

Choose one:

- Tanking
- Disabling
- Damage
- Team buffing

I'll tell you what to go next.

I'm going to build a damage character so any help on that front I know I need to pick up power attack and weapon focus and for that matter if I hqve extra feats i qould get weapon specialization. but I'm not sure what to take beyond that.

Mutagenic Mauler is what you want to play, perhaps combined with Steel-Breaker.

Get all the weapon feats, PA, Furious Focus, the Anticipate Dodge line, and the maneuver feats for disarm and sunder.

that's actually a good idea. I will use both of those archetypes.

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