OK, so my monk wizard has beast shape I. Can he use unarmed strikes in animal form? What monk powers do not work in animal form?
Polymorphing gives the natural attacks of an animal. Does that include special abilities connected to those attacks like grab and constrict for a constrictor snake or poison on the venomous snake's bite?
Polymorph as a category only gives the natural attacks of the creature.
If you look at beast shape 2, you can see that it says if the creature has grab, you get the attack. You can infer that beast shape 1 does not give you grab, since it is not listed in the abilities.
Yes the monk can make unarmed strikes.
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.
Depending on how your GM reads this, you may or may not be able to flurry with unarmed strikes as you're not "trained" in the new body and Flurry is an EX ability. Any EX or SU abilities might not work, depending on the GM. I think they should all work, because monk's need love.
Polymorph as a category only gives the natural attacks of the creature.
If you look at beast shape 2, you can see that it says if the creature has grab, you get the attack. You can infer that beast shape 1 does not give you grab, since it is not listed in the abilities.
Yes the monk can make unarmed strikes.
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.Depending on how your GM reads this, you may or may not be able to flurry with unarmed strikes as you're not "trained" in the new body and Flurry is an EX ability. Any EX or SU abilities might not work, depending on the GM. I think they should all work, because monk's need love.
Yeah, but the last sentence of Flurry of Blows says "A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks." So it's one or the other. Although strictly speaking, I don't see any reason you can't use a beast shape's extraordinary ability in conjunction with a flurry.
Yeah, but the last sentence of Flurry of Blows says "A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks." So it's one or the other. Although strictly speaking, I don't see any reason you can't use a beast shape's extraordinary ability in conjunction with a flurry.
Yes, flurry is with Unarmed attacks only. If you have natural attacks, you can either attack with natural attacks OR flurry. You can't use the natural attacks in a flurry (unless you have something which says you can, i think theres a feat for it).
What I meant, is I have seen GMs rule that a monk polymorphed into a bear, didn't know how to flurry effectively with a bear body, as their limbs are connected differently. He did allow the monk to flurry while an elemental though, so as I said, its kind of up to GM which EX or SU abilities work and how.
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Yes, flurry is with Unarmed attacks only. If you have natural attacks, you can either attack with natural attacks OR flurry. You can't use the natural attacks in a flurry (unless you have something which says you can, i think theres a feat for it).
Feral Combat Training. Generally considered most effective when turning into animals with a single large attack (usually a bite) which you can then spam.
There is no RAW support for preventing a polymorphed monk from flurrying with UAS.
What I meant, is I have seen GMs rule that a monk polymorphed into a bear, didn't know how to flurry effectively with a bear body, as their limbs are connected differently. He did allow the monk to flurry while an elemental though, so as I said, its kind of up to GM which EX or SU abilities work and how.
The problem with this logic is that it only applies to using natural attacks as a part of the flurry (which you can take that feat for). Assuming you're still using unarmed strikes when polymorphed into a bear (you're probably a size category larger now too so your strikes probably deal more damage than bear claws regardless of level) you should be able to flurry perfectly fine.
Why? Because you're considered proficient in all the natural attacks that your new form has, which infers that as a part of being polymorphed you are 'comfortable' in your new form, and there would be no reason that having a different bone structure would prevent you from using flurry.
I had a monk once that got bitten by a were-bear. Were-monks are dumb.
What I meant, is I have seen GMs rule that a monk polymorphed into a bear, didn't know how to flurry effectively with a bear body, as their limbs are connected differently. He did allow the monk to flurry while an elemental though, so as I said, its kind of up to GM which EX or SU abilities work and how.The problem with this logic is that it only applies to using natural attacks as a part of the flurry (which you can take that feat for). Assuming you're still using unarmed strikes when polymorphed into a bear (you're probably a size category larger now too so your strikes probably deal more damage than bear claws regardless of level) you should be able to flurry perfectly fine.
Why? Because you're considered proficient in all the natural attacks that your new form has, which infers that as a part of being polymorphed you are 'comfortable' in your new form, and there would be no reason that having a different bone structure would prevent you from using flurry.
I had a monk once that got bitten by a were-bear. Were-monks are dumb.
Mind you, were-bear bites can be pretty nasty.
The problem with this logic is that it only applies to using natural attacks as a part of the flurry (which you can take that feat for). Assuming you're still using unarmed strikes when polymorphed into a bear (you're probably a size category larger now too so your strikes probably deal more damage than bear claws regardless of level) you should be able to flurry perfectly fine.
Why? Because you're considered proficient in all the natural attacks that your new form has, which infers that as a part of being polymorphed you are 'comfortable' in your new form, and there would be no reason that having a different bone structure would prevent you from using flurry.
I had a monk once that got bitten by a were-bear. Were-monks are dumb.
While I agree with you, the GM said that the monk was familiar in a human body for unarmed strikes. He said he could make natural bear attacks fine, but the monk training for flurry was an Ex ability, so he couldn't flurry with bear unarmed strikes. He did say he could full-attack with bear unarmed strikes, but not flurry.
GM rules all, whether the rules say you can or not.
GM rules all, whether the rules say you can or not.
As this is the rules forum this is a place that is not 100% accurate, here they're wrong if it's pointed out they're going against the written rules... although then, unless it's PFS or something, it belongs in the house rule forum and they go back to being right again. So yeah. Sort of. ;)
Werebear monk would be pretty dumb. I'd take living monolith over weremonk.
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Reconsidered and Tarantula is right - the RAW is in fact that which abilities are lost are determined by GM discretion. That said, based on the boards I expect it's really unusual to rule that flurry is lost.
If you find yourself in such a situation and are a monk who plans on polymorphing regularly, absolutely take Feral Combat Training. It's normally a decent choice but if you can't flurry normally you're gimped without it.