Suggestion for altering burn of kineticist


Rules Discussion


Main Problem i see with the kineticist is that his abilities do fall into two vastly differing categories and one of them is contrary to kineticists usefullness and coolness factors:

-"at-will" powers
That are his standard blasts, blast mods costing 1 burn or blast mods costing 2 with potential reduction by 1 due to some ability (kine can use move action to reduce 1 burn, so its at will with move+standard) and all other wild talents costing 0

-equal or less than "1/day" powers
Thats nearly all his other stuff; if after any reductions 1 burn remains, the kineticist is immidieately limited to con mod+3 per day useage; since some cool stuff costs more than 1 burn and since all abilities causing burn use the same pool, a high end kineticists might end up with 1 explosive blast, 2 entangling blasts and 1 torrent for entire day, which might be equivalent to having all burn costing wild talents to be actually 1 or 2/day

Coolness about kineticists is "at-will" and anything he can do per day will run contrary to that coolness factor.

Compared to anything even semicasters can do, "per day" kineticist talents suck, simply because semicasters have greater selection and have it up to 5/day for every spell level.

Mechanically i see no good reasons, why part of the kineticist stuff needs to be in "per day" category. Other classes - e.g. witch - work fine with useful at-will powers.

And the kineticists still has some rather usefull at-will powers, namely spark of life for trap and encounter detection (spend every turn a move action to have your elemental walk 50-100 ft in front of party, opening anything; any encounter enemies will attack elemental for 1 or more rounds, while party considers preping, engaging or retreating) and move earth,siege of fortified structues gets lot of new options with "move earth" tunnels for colapsing walls and it screws any natural dungeon plan.

But some of the kineticists talents would be too strong as full "at-will".

Furthermore the burn mechnic of dealing uncurable non-lethal damage and accumulating burn points is added bookkeeping.

Hence, my suggestion for burn:
"Burn (Ex): At 1st level, a kineticist can overexert herself
to channel more power than normal, pushing past the
boundaries that are safe for her body. Some of her wild
talents offer her the option to accept burn in exchange for a
greater effect. A kineticist can accumulate a number of burn points up to her Constitution modifier + 3 safely. For each point of burn she accepts beyond that limit, a kineticist suffers one point of lethal damage per character level, which cannot be reduced, avoided or negated via immunities, resistances or other means in any way and causes any kineticist's regeneration to stop functioning on the round following.
One minute of taking the concentration action removes all burn, but not any damage caused by burn.
A kineticist can’t choose to accept more than 1 point of burn
in a single round. This limit rises to 2 points of burn at
6th level, and it rises by 1 point of burn for every 3 levels
thereafter.
If she has both hands free, as a move action, a kineticist
can visibly gather energy or elemental matter around her,
allowing her to reduce the total burn cost of a blast wild talent
used in the same round by 1 point (to a minimum of 0
points). If she takes any damage while gathering power
and before the kinetic blast that releases it, she must make
a concentration check (DC = 10 + damage dealt + effective
spell level of her kinetic blast) or lose the energy in a wild
surge that deals her 1 point of burn."

That way the kineticists "per day" abilities turn into "per encounter" abilities. Their power can be adjusted sufficiently by adjusting the burn points the kineticist can suffer before taking damage. E.g. if only up to constitution modifier is safe, this change grants a high level kineticist just something like 2 explosive blasts per encounter, which is enough to keep him in check.

But both usefullness and coolness drastically increase, because now a lot of cool stuff can be used regularly instead of 1-2/day. Furthermore, the theme of kineticists burning his own essence or so is meintained, while at the same time bookkeping is simplified. (Yes, damage can be healed after combat, but accepting for example 4 burn for explosion is still accepting a lot of damage in the midth of combat and therefore probably not taken lightly).

And it doesnt require much other changes, e.g. all other talents are tied to "recover burn", so function accordingly without change of wording.

The only talent in need of adjustment (at least as far as i think):
"Kinetic Healer
Element aether or water; Type Sp; Level 1; Burn 1; see text
Prerequisites kineticist level 1st
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
With a touch, you can heal a willing living creature for an amount
equal to 1d6+1 + your Constitution modifier. This
increases by 1d6+1 for every 2 kineticist levels you
possess beyond 1st. You can use this ability up to consitution modifier + 3 times per day."

Without this adjustment, a lev 1 kineticist could otherwise fully heal entire armies with 1 hour time or so. I also made the healed amount explicit, because currently its unclear what happens when composite blasts are available.

Is this a good way to bring the kineticists ability more in sync with the general "at will" theme?


This is a playtest, not a "I don't like your class, change it" design session.

I recommend that you play the kineticist in some games and submit a report based on your experiences, as that will help the development team decide how strong, useful, or enjoyable aspects of their design are.


I find this a very good idea. My group tried the class in a small session, and all of the players complained about having no breathing room before starting to accumulate permanent damage.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

So far there are two ways to reduce burn, one free one cost action economy. I agree with Game Master in that burn is one of those things that needs to be playtested and since I won't have a chance to play it until later I think I'm better off seeing how the other playtests went before deciding if this is a good idea. Because of the way my mind works I'm more likely to not use anything that burns more than 2 and bypass the burn except in emergencies because I really don't like permanent damage.


I see that as intended. Sure, you can be reckless and burn yourself to dangerous condition rapidly and be unable to use your maximum power... But you can also fight conservatively and only burn in direst need.

It's a very interesting mechanic.


Indeed, however pathfinder already has a number of limited resources mechanics, like Arcane Pool, Arcane Reservoir, Lay on Hands that fill a similar niche. None of the burn away the character survivability. I think the concept is very interesting, backed by several fictions, and well thought. The idea of Burn is great, but It would seem that it needs a recovering mechanic and some free air to act, as proposed by Carn.


Game Master wrote:

This is a playtest, not a "I don't like your class, change it" design session.

This subforum is for:

"Rules Discussion Occult Adventures Playtest
Post all of your thoughts about the playtest classes and the magic and spell rules here. Note that actual playtest feedback should go in the Playtest Feedback forum. Please make sure to peruse the existing threads to see if anyone is already discussing your topic before starting a new thread. Each class has its own primary discussion thread to get things started."

"Post all your thoughts about the paytest classes ..." = "Tell us: I like/dislike class X/class feature X, because ..."

Hence, this is also a "I don't like your class" forum. (Which btw, i did not even say, just that i dislike the consequences of burn mechanics.)


Doesn't temp hp stop damage from burn as it is damage and Temp hp takes the damage first?


Starbuck_II wrote:
Doesn't temp hp stop damage from burn as it is damage and Temp hp takes the damage first?

Not nonlethal damage.

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Occult Adventures Playtest / Rules Discussion / Suggestion for altering burn of kineticist All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Discussion