My Zen Archer/Qinggong Monk plans to switch to Fighter at 9th level and I plan to pick up the Magical Knack trait via Additional Traits feat.
I'm pretty sure this will allow my Qinggong level to be 9th level for Barkskin pumping it to +4 but what I'm wondering is if Monk itself gets any benefits from Magical Knack? An extra Ki at 10th level maybe? Or having my Ki pool bypass Lawful if I use a Ki strike bow?
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Magical knack has no effect on your Ki abilities because they're Spell-like abilities.
In essence, you're not a caster but someone who uses this magic through other means (Ki).
I'd say it does work. SLAs are not spells, but they do have a caster level that is based on your monk level. Magical knack says to pick a class, and your caster level in that class is +2.
You would ONLY gain the CL though, no extra ki or anything else.
Magical knack has no effect on your Ki abilities because they're Spell-like abilities.
In essence, you're not a caster but someone who uses this magic through other means (Ki).
I'd say it does work. SLAs are not spells, but they do have a caster level that is based on your monk level. Magical knack says to pick a class, and your caster level in that class is +2.
You would ONLY gain the CL though, no extra ki or anything else.
That's probably how I would rule it, too, but I can see how other GMs would rule it differently.
Clear it with your GM. If you're using this for PFS, check with the GMs in your area to get a feel for how they would rule it and mark it as a "gray area" that you want to check with your GM before you start the session. And be prepared for table variation.
As long as everyone here knows that this is only useful for multiclassing, I don't think it's a problem.
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It should affect your Caster Level for any spell abilities picked up by the Quinggong archetype, such as Barkskin, as those are classified as Spell Like Abilities with the Monk Level counting as a caster level.
The rest of your Ki abilities should be completely unaffected because they are supernatural abilities and not listed as having a caster level. (The only exception to this is Abundant Step which is listed as Supernatural, but also calls in the Monk's Level as a Caster level)
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It's a strange situation, but...
On SLA's:
"A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell."
On Caster Level:
"A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell."
On Qinggong:
"A qinggong monk’s class level is the caster level for these spell-like abilities"
If an SLA works just like a spell, and a Monk uses SLA's as if they were spells based on a CL, then it would seem they have an 'official' CL. Interestingly, if this is true then a Monk is not only a candidate for Arcane Strike, but Arcane Strike should scale with their CL...
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If an SLA works just like a spell, and a Monk uses SLA's as if they were spells based on a CL, then it would seem they have an 'official' CL. Interestingly, if this is true then a Monk is not only a candidate for Arcane Strike, but Arcane Strike should scale with their CL...
Indeed they should qualify for Arcane Strike, so long as the SLA they have duplicates an Arcane Spell, such as Scorching ray or True Strike.
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It's a strange situation, but...
On SLA's:
"A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell."
On Caster Level:
"A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell."
On Qinggong:
"A qinggong monk’s class level is the caster level for these spell-like abilities"
If an SLA works just like a spell, and a Monk uses SLA's as if they were spells based on a CL, then it would seem they have an 'official' CL. Interestingly, if this is true then a Monk is not only a candidate for Arcane Strike, but Arcane Strike should scale with their CL...
I never did read it that thorough, good catch!
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Indeed they should qualify for Arcane Strike, so long as the SLA they have duplicates an Arcane Spell, such as Scorching ray or True Strike.
If an SLA works just like a spell, and a Monk uses SLA's as if they were spells based on a CL, then it would seem they have an 'official' CL. Interestingly, if this is true then a Monk is not only a candidate for Arcane Strike, but Arcane Strike should scale with their CL...
This works. However, it has diminishing returns. I retrained my Zen Archer Qinggong and got rid of Arcane Strike at 9th level because it was interfering with my ability to use Ki every round... Or maybe a more appropriate explanation would be to say I couldn't use Arcane Strike, because I preferred to use Ki every round.
At low levels it's a great damage boost and helps to conserve Ki, but by mid to late levels you typically have enough Ki to never run out before the Mage runs out of spells and insists the Party stops for the night.
The debate is ongoing locally. I forwarded BadBird's comment and it convinces me that at the very least the trait should add 2 levels to my Barkskin and Gaseous Form.
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This would work just fine regardless of how SLA's react like spells or not. The Magical Knack Trait doesn't say the word "spell" anywhere in it, just "caster level". So any Spells, SLA, or anything else related to caster level granted by a class can benefit from this Trait.
Interestingly, it would also work for Alchemist Extracts.
The reply I got.
"Looking into this strictly, I'm going to say that a spell-like class ability is cast at a level equal to the granting-class level (with some exceptions per CRB discussion of unique SLAs), but that the *character* does not in fact have a caster level; he is not a caster, after all. The ability to use SLAs doesn't grant "caster status" to a character.
Magical Knack will have no effect on spell-like class abilities.
This is so even for casters, if they have SLAs granted as class features: a fey-bloodline sorcerer's fleeting glance, for example, is not going to be improved by Magical Knack. It will only affect the spells they cast.
There's a difference between caster level and level at which a spell is cast."
I'm gonna be contrary here and say it wouldn't work because you have to select a spell-casting class when you take the trait and Monk is not a spell-casting class.
Well I got a more convincing argument against.
"I'd say by RAW it clearly doesn't.
Review the "Magic" section of the CRB: "caster level" only appears in the discussion of spells ("A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell" and so on), and spell-like abilities appear at the end of the section in the discussion of "Special Abilities" - it's something other than spellcasting entirely. The discussion of spell-like abilities never mentions caster level at all.
Spell-like abilities aren't even cast - they're activated - which is why they can't be counterspelled (not spells!) or identified with spellcraft (not spells!). They simply aren't spells, aren't cast at a caster level (since they're not cast), and aren't going to benefit from things (like orange prism ioun stones or magical knack) which enhance caster level.
tl;dr: if it's not a spell and isn't cast, it doesn't have a caster level."
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But SLAs are cast... they can be interrupted and can use concentration to cast defensively.
Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, focus, or material components). They go away in an antimagic field and are subject to spell resistance if the spell the ability is based on would be subject to spell resistance.
And this supports the idea of having Magical Knack affect the Quinggong SLAs
For creatures with spell-like abilities, a designated caster level defines how difficult it is to dispel their spell-like effects and to define any level-dependent variables (such as range and duration) the abilities might have.
No the replies are from one of my local GMs.
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You local GMs are not official responses. If you are a Qinggong monk and use your Scorching Ray SLA on something with spell resistance, you certainly have a caster level roll to overcome it. Likewise for a rogue using major magic and chill touch.
Magical knack says it increases caster level in a class. It says nothing about spells or spell casting classes. Quinggong monk has a caster level. It's a valid recipient of the trait.