Was Transformation ever good?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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LazarX wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:

I'm gonna level with you guys, I totally forgot that you could combo this with one of the "X Form" spells. I still dislike losing the ability to cast, a lot, but that makes it much better.

That's assuming of course you've got 2 rounds to buff before you fight. Most casters who use Transformation are doing it as a last ditch maneuver not as part of a power up suite of buffs.

That's the issue to me. As a wizard, I'd never prepare this spell -- if I need a last-ditch 5th level spell, give me teleport. As a sorcerer, I'd never learn this spell, because if I have a 5th level spell lying around, there are so many other ways to influence combat more effectively, such as a wall spell or a summon spell.

Anything I can do under the influence of the spell can probably be done more effectively by the BSF under normal circumstances, so I'm better off playing to my own strengths instead of trying to ape his. (I mean, okay, yes, I get a +4 strength bonus. This gives me, what, 12? 14? I have proficiency with martial weapons, but I don't own any, and most of my feats are suddenly useless, since I took Quicken Spell instead of Weapon Focus.)

Treantmonk put it well: "If you choose to test your "phenomenal cosmic power" by going out alone, then YOU are the Big Stupid Fighter, except you aren't Big, you aren't a Fighter, and you're not....well, that's it pretty much."

ETA: I'm sorry, it's a sixth level spell, not a 5th. Sounds even worse.

ETA^2: Just a quick comparison; I know the iconics aren't very good, but it's a basis for comparison.

Valeros at 12th level does : +2 keen longsword +21/+16/+11 (1d8+13/17–20), +2 short sword +18/+13 (1d6+8/19–20).

A transformed Ezren does : +2 cane (rod of thunder and lightning) +16/+11/+6 (1d6+4). Or maybe he can pull a masterwork greatsword out of a backpack or something. He's still less effective with his best attack than Valeros is on his third.

Silver Crusade

Ah I see everyone is talking about Tenser's Transformation. Come to think of it, I don't think I have ever seen this spell being used, in first, second, or third edition let alone pathfinder. If things have gotten bad enough where party members are down, and the wizard is about to be ripped limb from limb, the wizard usually has cast a teleport spell getting his party out of harm's way.

Scarab Sages

Would it be worth hanging as part of a contingency?

"If I am made unable to cast, due to reduced Int, make me the target of transformation."

Could it prevent being made totally useless by feeblemind, or Int poison?
You'd still probably be able to operate as a sentient creature, even when feebleminded, since your headband of mental stat bonuses would push your Int & Cha back above 3.


Snorter wrote:

Would it be worth hanging as part of a contingency?

"If I am made unable to cast, due to reduced Int, make me the target of transformation."

Could it prevent being made totally useless by feeblemind, or Int poison?
You'd still probably be able to operate as a sentient creature, even when feebleminded, since your headband of mental stat bonuses would push your Int & Cha back above 3.

How often does that happen?

Of the standard poisons, only two cause Int damage, and neither is rapid-enough acting to be a useful combat poison (which sort of renders transformation useless). Not many monsters cause Intelligence damage. So unless you're up against Febrile Frank, the Feeblemind Fantasy Foe, it sounds like a much less useful contingency than many others, especially considering its level (and therefore the level you'd need to be to make it contingent).

Scarab Sages

Oh, I'm in no illusions it would happen often.

I'm just trying to play along with the spirit of the thread, and think up a scenario where it would actually be worth casting.
Having your Int or Cha casting stat dumped to 9 or less (even with items) would be one situation in which forfeiting your ability to cast would be a non-issue.


Contingent on polymorph seems like the best bet so far.

Grand Lodge

Snorter wrote:

Would it be worth hanging as part of a contingency?

"If I am made unable to cast, due to reduced Int, make me the target of transformation."

Could it prevent being made totally useless by feeblemind, or Int poison?
You'd still probably be able to operate as a sentient creature, even when feebleminded, since your headband of mental stat bonuses would push your Int & Cha back above 3.

If I'm screwed that badly as a wizard, that contingency is for a teleport back to my safehouse. then again a couple of my wizards might go for that option... it'll vary.

Lantern Lodge

I can see a beast bonded witch using this with some success, along with a few selected corner cases.


I could see a magus doing a poly transform combo on himself in a "OshitIneedtobeawallNOW" kinda deal


DeusTerran wrote:
I could see a magus doing a poly transform combo on himself in a "OshitIneedtobeawallNOW" kinda deal

An Eldrich Scion Magus or a Bloodrager can have it on demand for a few rounds with the arcane bloodline, along with Haste and Blur.

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