How big can a PC race Barbarian get?


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So, there's a pretty sweet rage power, Greater Elemental Totem: Air.

Greater Elemental Totem: Air wrote:
While raging, the barbarian is surrounded by an aura of howling winds. Creatures attempting to cast spells while adjacent to the barbarian must succeed at a concentration check (DC 15 + spell level), and ranged attack rolls against the barbarian take a –4 penalty. Creatures smaller than the barbarian that attack the barbarian in melee with a natural weapon or touch attack must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 the barbarian's level + the barbarian's Constitution modifier) or the attack fails and the creature is flung back 5 feet and knocked prone. The barbarian can suspend this aura as a free action.

It's a 3-parter, part A challenges casters adjacent to you, which doesn't matter unless you have Step Up. Part B gives you +4 AC vs. ranged attacks, which is always nice. And part C (bolded) makes creatures smaller than you need to make a fort save to be able to use natural weapons/touch attacks.

Now, the touch attack part probably doesn't matter, because few casters are crazy enough to try to highfive a barbarian, but this knocks them on their ass if they dare. Then it's also useful against monsters, because most of them use natural weapons. But most of them are bigger than you, whereas you need to be bigger than them.

Enlarge Person only takes you to Large, so what other options have we got? Ideally the setup time would be as short as possible.


You can start as large (aasimars and tiefling can be of non-human heritage and then have the size the parent race has). Then you can add enlarge and I think that's it because of the following rule from the polymorph subschool:

Polymorph:
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

So even if you combine a size increasing polymorph spell with enlarge person the size increase would not stack.

The only chance would be if there was a non personal polymorph spell that increased your size by more than one step.

TL;DR If you start medium: large is the limit and if you start large huge is the limit.


Except Aasimar/Tieflings can't be affected by Enlarge Person. So, still Large. For a Barbarian anyway, an Abyssal Bloodrager could get Huge...assuming your GM allows a Large Tiefling/Aasimar to begin with, since the implied rule is for PC races as Tieflings anyway, so you're limited to Small or Medium by default.

Dark Archive

Umbranus wrote:

You can start as large (aasimars and tiefling can be of non-human heritage and then have the size the parent race has). Then you can add enlarge and I think that's it because of the following rule from the polymorph subschool:

** spoiler omitted **
So even if you combine a size increasing polymorph spell with enlarge person the size increase would not stack.

The only chance would be if there was a non personal polymorph spell that increased your size by more than one step.

TL;DR If you start medium: large is the limit and if you start large huge is the limit.

However Aasimar and tieflings are native Outsiders so Enlarge person doesn't work.

You'd have to fanangle something.


Do you allow Trox as a player race? They're large, and (monstrous) humanoids, so enlarge person works on them. They're one of the player races from bestiary 4.


Forgot that.

Ok only aasimar with scion of humanity can become huge. Because per RAW non-human aasimar may still take that alternate racial. but apart from that most GMs do not allow starting large.

And it still was not rules whether the level 1 domain power of the grows domain works on outsiders. Only stuff that matters gets FAQs.


This is what you want:
titanic
If you can start large, it's just amazing, but the price is steep.


Umbranus wrote:

Forgot that.

Ok only aasimar with scion of humanity can become huge. Because per RAW non-human aasimar may still take that alternate racial. but apart from that most GMs do not allow starting large.

And it still was not rules whether the level 1 domain power of the grows domain works on outsiders. Only stuff that matters gets FAQs.

So, know any Large humans?

Scion of Humanity is incompatible with the whole "My non-Outsider side is Large" idea.


Rynjin wrote:
Umbranus wrote:

Forgot that.

Ok only aasimar with scion of humanity can become huge. Because per RAW non-human aasimar may still take that alternate racial. but apart from that most GMs do not allow starting large.

And it still was not rules whether the level 1 domain power of the grows domain works on outsiders. Only stuff that matters gets FAQs.

So, know any Large humans?

Scion of Humanity is incompatible with the whole "My non-Outsider side is Large" idea.

As I wrote above: As far as I know RAW you can combine both. You know My Mom was a giant and my father was a human but one of his ancestors was an angel.

Neither the scion of humanity alternate trait nor the non-human Aasimar paragraph state that they are mutual exclusive. And counting as a human you could even take racial heritage (giant-type) to back up such a backstory. Perhaps I found the next munchkin loophole that needs to be closed via FAQ ASAP lest the world breaks apart.


A bloodrager with the Arcane bloodline can become a huge animal via their level 16 bloodrager ability. Take the primalist archetype so you can swap out a couple of your bloodline powers for rage powers and there you go.


High UMD Barbarian, using Scrolls of Beast Shape III, Giant Form II, or Elemental Body IV, or Form of the Dragon III.


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RAW you can act while dead too, what's your point?

In this case it's quite clear. The sidebar repeatedly refers to "non-human Aasimar". And yet they're also counted as Humanoid (Human) because reasons?

You can't have it both ways. Either you're of human heritage or you're not.

Umbranus wrote:
Perhaps I found the next munchkin loophole that needs to be closed via FAQ ASAP lest the world breaks apart.

Please, cry more.

"There's a FAQ I don't like!" isn't an excuse to pretend something works even when you know it doesn't.

Arcturus24 wrote:
Do you allow Trox as a player race? They're large, and (monstrous) humanoids, so enlarge person works on them. They're one of the player races from bestiary 4.

Monstrous Humanoids =/= Humanoids. They're different Types for a reason. X Person spells do not work.


Following on the Abyssal Bloodrager, you could drop two rage powers as a barbarian to pick up this. Unfortunately, it's not as powerful (like all the bloodline rage powers).


Rynjin wrote:
RAW you can act while dead too, what's your point?

That would a thing that should be FAQed.

Quote:
"There's a FAQ I don't like!" isn't an excuse to pretend something works even when you know it doesn't.

In fact I do not know that. I know that games have rules and those should tell us how it works. In this case the rules tell me that I can be a large scion of humanity.

I would not use it, because I would not want to play a large pc (unless in some very special campaign) but it is the rule as written.


Mythic enlarge gets you to huge.


Umbranus wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
RAW you can act while dead too, what's your point?

That would a thing that should be FAQed.

Quote:
"There's a FAQ I don't like!" isn't an excuse to pretend something works even when you know it doesn't.

In fact I do not know that. I know that games have rules and those should tell us how it works. In this case the rules tell me that I can be a large scion of humanity.

I would not use it, because I would not want to play a large pc (unless in some very special campaign) but it is the rule as written.

They tell you no such thing.

They tell you non-human Aasimar CAN EXIST.

They do not tell you that you may play one.


Does it tell you that for every class, archetype, feat etc.? I don't think so.


Umbranus wrote:
Does it tell you that for every class, archetype, feat etc.? I don't think so.

I'll show up at your table with a vampire PC.

What? They're listed in Blood of the Night (a campaign setting book with the exact same "immediately allowed because I said so" clause you seem to have read in Blood of Angels), and nothing says I CAN'T just tack that template onto my PC.


On a less snarky note, yes, most classes, archetypes, and Feats when they are/were announced come in a section prefaced with something along the lines of "Players may choose" (for the book we're talking about, one such things is "Players may choose one of the following six heritages for their aasimar characters in place of the traditional aasimar racial features.")

Not every sidebar is a hard and fast rule. Most, in fact, are optional rules (like the Peg Legs and Eye Patches rules from Skull and Shackles, which are also in a sidebar).

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