So I have a gunslinger with a Double Barrel Pistol, and simply want to know what the ruling is on using Vital Strike and also making use of firing both barrels of the gun at the target at the same time.
Can you do it? How does it affect the damage?
RAW both barrels get the bonus. Double barreled specifies "with the same action" it does not specify the type of action.
RAW both barrels get the bonus. Double barreled specifies "with the same action" it does not specify the type of action.
RAW doesn't make any such clear conclusion as far as I am aware. You may be correct, but I don't think it's so clear or simple as you imply.
Also, I've flagged this to be moved to the rules forum as this is not an advice question.
You make a single attack that deals significantly more damage than normal.Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon's damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.
I would say no, as Vital Strike specifies one attack. Although there is some debate about how, exactly, double barreled firearms work.
You make a single attack that deals significantly more damage than normal.Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon's damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.I would say no, as Vital Strike specifies one attack. Although there is some debate about how, exactly, double barreled firearms work.
Is an attack a type of action? If so it qualifies for pulling both triggers. Even if Vital Strike is some special standard action that allows one to attack, the double barreled rules allow it.
This pistol has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be fired independently as a separate action, or both can be shot at once with the same action.
Should it be allowed is open to question, but RAW is clear.
It is clear that you can use Vital Strike when firing both barrels, but only one attack deals additional damage.
As a comparison, Vital Strike would actually work on Manyshot because both arrows use one attack, except Manyshot explicitly uses a full-attack action while Vital Strike requires the attack action (a standard action).
FYI: an attack is not a type of action in and of itself (separate from the 'attack action' as referenced in the feat).
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This musket has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be shot independently as a separate action, or both can be fired at once as the same attack.
Emphasis mine.
In contrast
This pistol has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be fired independently as a separate action, or both can be shot at once with the same action.
The pistol does not specify single attack or multiple attacks with the same action.
Generally speaking, a standard action only allows a single attack.
Before this thread gets bogged down with people being dogmatic, the rules fail to clarify how double barrelled guns work with several feats, such as Vital Strike. Take a look at the threads about applying sneak attack damage...
Therefore it is up to your GM whether you can apply such bonuses to more than one barrel. There is no consensus, and probably the best option is to ban firing both barrels as a single standard action until Paizo actually addresses any of these concerns with new rules.
There will now follow several posts proclaiming that the poster is correct and everyone else is wrong - from both interpretations.
Okay...
Firstly, thank you for flagging the thread to move, I totally forgot there was a separate thread for rules questions.
Secondly, I can see how it could be seen either way. It would better if it used some kind of standard rule, like 'this weapon can be fired as if the character has the manyshot feat'. Though we've been doing both bullets get x4 on a crit since they used the same attack roll.
I will ask my DM about what her ruling it, I have the feeling she's going to say the one barrel option, but still, doing 3D8 instead of 2d8 on a shot is still helpful. Actually, since we have mythic 2 and I took Mythic Vital Strike, all those pretty deadly aim and dex to damage bonuses also multiply. (I was doing 1D8+16 per barrel with deadly aim and other bonuses... So hitting for 3D8+48 a round or 9D8+144 on crit seems fine for me.)
Secondly, I can see how it could be seen either way. It would better if it used some kind of standard rule, like 'this weapon can be fired as if the character has the manyshot feat'. Though we've been doing both bullets get x4 on a crit since they used the same attack roll.
Manyshot (Combat)
You can fire multiple arrows at a single target.
Prerequisites: Dex 17, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a bow, your first attack fires two arrows. If the attack hits, both arrows hit. Apply precision-based damage (such as sneak attack) and critical hit damage only once for this attack. Damage bonuses from using a composite bow with a high Strength bonus apply to each arrow, as do other damage bonuses, such as a ranger's favored enemy bonus. Damage reduction and resistances apply separately to each arrow.
If you are saying that you've been giving both bullets fired from a gun using Manyshot critical damage there are two problems. Firstly, Manyshot is only allowed to be combined with bows. Not with any ranged attack, which means no guns. Secondly, Manyshot specifies that even if the attack is a critical hit you only get critical hit damage once. So basically one arrow is a critical hit, the other is a regular hit.
I'm not sure if you're referring to something else or if I've misunderstood the situation. Double barrel guns require only one action to fire both barrels, but each barrel requires its own attack roll. So I'm wondering if you've confused some things or what exactly is happening.
Secondly, I can see how it could be seen either way. It would better if it used some kind of standard rule, like 'this weapon can be fired as if the character has the manyshot feat'. Though we've been doing both bullets get x4 on a crit since they used the same attack roll.Manyshot (Combat)
You can fire multiple arrows at a single target.
Prerequisites: Dex 17, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a bow, your first attack fires two arrows. If the attack hits, both arrows hit. Apply precision-based damage (such as sneak attack) and critical hit damage only once for this attack. Damage bonuses from using a composite bow with a high Strength bonus apply to each arrow, as do other damage bonuses, such as a ranger's favored enemy bonus. Damage reduction and resistances apply separately to each arrow.
If you are saying that you've been giving both bullets fired from a gun using Manyshot critical damage there are two problems. Firstly, Manyshot is only allowed to be combined with bows. Not with any ranged attack, which means no guns. Secondly, Manyshot specifies that even if the attack is a critical hit you only get critical hit damage once. So basically one arrow is a critical hit, the other is a regular hit.
I'm not sure if you're referring to something else or if I've misunderstood the situation. Double barrel guns require only one action to fire both barrels, but each barrel requires its own attack roll. So I'm wondering if you've confused some things or what exactly is happening.
No I was saying two separate things. Much like the subject of this discussion, there seems to be some ambiguity. :P
It seems that when I was firing both barrels at the same time the DM was having me make them as one attack. :/ Hmm... this is troublesome because I was trying to go the Vital strike route to avoid having to make so many attack rolls. (At that point with my current build I was firing 4 shots a round, which would be 8 if I roll for each barrel separately).
So the reason they both critted was cause we were having my attack roll for both bullets.
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The thing about manyshot, was me providing an example of what I thought would be a good rule to unify the double barreled weapon thing. I am well aware that it only applies to bows; the point was that you could have in any double barreled weapon the text that is is considered to have manyshot specifically working for that weapon. This would mean that they can fire both barrels as part of a full round attack action.