1. This whole thread came about because I wanted to create a ranged poisoner.
2. Following the logic of "If you can make a Smoke Arrow by modifying a smokestick you should be able to do an arrow version of alchemist's fire that does less damage and no splash. But let's just stick with a Smoke Arrow for now.
3. And then I found out about the nifty trick with Explosive Runes. But let's say it's Spell Storing to make it easy.
So my question is:
Can they stack? I haven't found any ruling that says poisoned Can't be alchemical, just like I haven't seen that magic can't be alchemical either (must be masterwork to start, but if I'm willing to drop the extra 300 to make my smoke arrows masterwork?) Where does it say I can or can't poison a magic weapon?
Can I have a +1 smoke arrow of spell storing dipped in wyvern poison?
Thanks in advance. Any and all clarity is always welcome.
Oh and while I'm at it:
Efficient Quiver (explicitly non-magical ammunition). Do poisoned/alchemical arrows work since they are non-magical?
Thanks
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Yes. You can enchant an alchemical arrow and then dip it in poison. No reason you can't do that. The alchemical arrow is the "base" item that gets enchanted and this is simply dipped in poison.
Not sure what you mean by the Efficient Quiver, you may be referring to a different item. The Efficient Quiver is just a bag of Holding specifically for ammunition.
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Ah if we are talking about Abundant Ammunition then you actually could NOT do that. It could replicate alchemical arrows, and you could cast Magic Weapon of the quiver to make it replicate magical alchemical arrows but you could not get it to replicate the poison. Since poison is not ammunition the spell is unable to replicate it and adding poison to an item does not change the item itself. It is just an arrow that is also covered in poison. Much the same way splashing acid on an Ogre doesn't turn him into an Acid Ogre, just an Ogre covered in acid. He's still just an Ogre and that arrow is still just an arrow.
Regarding Efficient Quiver/Abundant Ammunition:
Ah, yes, I remember. You are correct. I was going to craft wondrous "upgrade" an efficient quiver to an Efficient Abundant Quiver.
So just to make sure I'm tracking: What you're saying is, if I make an Ogre Launching Ballista for a siege campaign, push an ogre into a crate, dump acid on it (for extra splash damage when it hits), and then cast Abundant Ammunition, once I launch him, the next Ogre won't have acid on it?
Well, that seems silly...
That being said, I see your logic and thanks for the help!
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For whatever reason I tend to use Ogres as a means of explaining logical falsies...I'm not sure why... Example
That was a needlessly ogre-complicated example. I approve
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How does the spell differentiate what part of the Arrow is Arrow and what part isn't? After all, an Arrow is really just a sharp stick; how does the spell know to also replicate the fletching and an arrowhead? Furthermore, poisoned arrows don't just have liquid poison dabbed onto them. It's thick and paint-like or tar-like and is applied in layers, not just a quick dab with a cottons swab; I'd say that effectively makes it part of the arrow, no different than a painted design.
My answer was going by RAW. An "Arrow" is an item in Pathfinder listed among the purchasable items in the game and defined as a type of ammunition. A "Poisoned Arrow" is not an item in the game. You cannot purchase it, it has no stats, and therefore cannot be considered a type of ammunition. A GM is welcome to bent those rules and allow it if he wishes but by RAW you cannot replicate the poison part of the arrows with Abundant Ammunition.
How does the spell differentiate what part of the Arrow is Arrow and what part isn't? After all, an Arrow is really just a sharp stick; how does the spell know to also replicate the fletching and an arrowhead? Furthermore, poisoned arrows don't just have liquid poison dabbed onto them. It's thick and paint-like or tar-like and is applied in layers, not just a quick dab with a cottons swab; I'd say that effectively makes it part of the arrow, no different than a painted design.My answer was going by RAW. An "Arrow" is an item in Pathfinder listed among the purchasable items in the game and defined as a type of ammunition. A "Poisoned Arrow" is not an item in the game. You cannot purchase it, it has no stats, and therefore cannot be considered a type of ammunition. A GM is welcome to bent those rules and allow it if he wishes but by RAW you cannot replicate the poison part of the arrows with Abundant Ammunition.
What if you add a contact poison to a raining arrow?
Or are you saying that if it's anything other than holy water a raining arrow won't work? (I don't think they want to eat that -2 to hit either, but it's a thought.)
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What if you add a contact poison to a raining arrow?Or are you saying that if it's anything other than holy water a raining arrow won't work? (I don't think they want to eat that -2 to hit either, but it's a thought.)
Yes. That item comes built in with holy water already as part of the item and therefore Abundant Ammunition could replicate the arrow exactly as defined in its description. Since by RAW that item can't hold anything other than holy water you could not replace the holy water with poison. A GM could of course overrule that but he's be shooting himself in the foot by doing so.
It's important to note that the reason this is designed the way it is is for balance purposes. Buying a single dose of the most powerful poison in the game and then replicating it endlessly with a level 1 spell is absurdly overpowered. Poisons are powerful and their limitation is the fact that they are expensive.