Goblin Squad Member
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(there's a little duplication here from the other thread, sorry.)
$15.00 will get me a couple of mediocre paperback books, or one good one, or a couple of second run movies in the theatre, or a month and half of Netflix.
To my mind, if a $15.00 monthly subscription keeps me thoroughly engaged for four hours, it's worth my spending it. If it keeps me thoroughly engaged for 10 hours, it's a phenomenal value.
On the other hand, if it requires me to be present for 30-60 hours a month to keep from losing my home, that's going to be the biggest threat to my participation.
War of Towers aside (since that's a stop-gap for a few months) the thing that is most likely to drive me away is not PvP, it is the likelihood of being forced to be ready for PvP during a fixed window every day of the year.
I will not be able to handle that.
If that is, indeed, the design intent, then there is zero question that I will leave the game, and why. It will not be because bandits took my stuff and/or killed me a few times.
If half of every weekly tabletop session was spent being ready (just in case) for someone to attack my home, I wouldn't play that either.
I'd like to suggest that we crowdforge an alternative to daily attack windows on our settlements.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There are other games that handle things differently. DFUW, you have to declare before you siege. You have to put up a "stake" of game cash and there is (I think) a waiting period before it begins. One day or several. can't remember exactly. Is that what you are thinking would be better?
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Goblin Squad Member
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What if, instead of a fixed, daily PvP window, we had a fixed total weekly PvP window, which got randomly inserted into a larger required block?
Say OV has to be open 6 hours per week, and we have to indicate what 18 hours per week that can fall in. (Or maybe 36 hours per month.)
The system randomly selects 6 of the avaiallable hours (could be one block, or two, or six) and gives the world 24 (or 48, or whatever) hours warning that "Ozem's Vigil will be open to attack on Friday from 22:00 to 24:00 PFOTime."?
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Goblin Squad Member
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When I have envisioned what you are describing, playing with those mechanics, I have not seen myself locked into "guard" mode during those times. I have always assumed that the process would have stages in which there would be ample warning and chances to participate.
That may be wrong (on my part) and if so, there is reason to be concerned...
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think Bringslite is onto something here. The designated PvP window, while convenient for scheduling and predictability, is an odd concept from a role-playing standpoint (unless this is another case of "because Pharasma said so--now shut up and eat your porridge!").
Having the attacker declare a siege in advance and set aside a stake is more of a PITA for for defenders because it is unscheduled and attackers because it ties up resources, but then again a siege is supposed to be a PITA for everyone involved.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think Bringslite is onto something here. The designated PvP window, while convenient for scheduling and predictability, is an odd concept from a role-playing standpoint (unless this is another case of "because Pharasma said so--now shut up and eat your porridge!").
Having the attacker declare a siege in advance and set aside a stake is more of a PITA for for defenders because it is unscheduled and attackers because it ties up resources, but then again a siege is supposed to be a PITA for everyone involved.
The difference here being "a siege" vs the constant, everpresent threat of sieges, every day, like clockwork.
I hope that there is some more complexity coming to the system after the War of Towers. The daily PVP window strikes me as an MVP system, more than a design goal.
One thing that helps: Settlements are supposed to be pretty big. Hopefully every member won't feel pressured to log in every day during the window, because there will be plenty of players to share the load.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Someone should clarify if needed, but I think the current planned mechanic for PvP window in War of Towers is as follows:
Window duration determined by number of towers claimed (ie. to have a smaller window of risk, hold fewer towers). Time of window being active chosen by settlement to accomodate when most of their members play.
That's quite a burden you are putting on yourself if you feel one players presence makes a significant difference in a settlements defence. Remember that the WoT is a temporary mechanic to provide a point for PvP and allow testing of it. It's a placeholder so that development time can be focused elsewhere. Enjoy it while you can, if you lose a tower, get it back next window, or take the attacker's tower while they waste manpower holding yours. It's hard for me to feel strongly about something that hasn't come into play yet, but I know the fear of PvP spreads quite easily as more of the game's mechanics come online.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sieging a Settlement isn't something that can just happen. The aggressor is going to have to prepare by attacking POIs, disrupting caravans, and possibly a few other things. It could take at least a week before the aggressor is ready to field an army to began the siege. Giving well enough warning to the defenders that they need to prepare.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Throughout all of this, both EE and OE, the settlement will have a daily window in which anyone in the settlement will be open to attack. No one will be able to tear your walls down without a lot of prep, but they will be able to launch PvP attacks against your members every day of the year.
Roadmap
This is the current schedule for the next month of activity for the game:
September and October: Alpha Stress Test
October 30th: Start of Early Enrollment
November 6: War of Towers and PvP Upgrade to Test Server
November 13: War of Towers and PvP Upgrade deployed to Live server
All good concerns raised; but we will have a more productive discussion on this issue in about 3 weeks.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have no idea what the situation will be like inside the PVP window and inside the main settlement hex. It may be FFA at that time and dependent on players to protect. I think that will turn out to be a big turn off.
I won't assume that is the case until we see more definition of how things work...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Throughout all of this, both EE and OE, the settlement will have a daily window in which anyone in the settlement will be open to attack. No one will be able to tear your walls down without a lot of prep, but they will be able to launch PvP attacks against your members every day of the year.
Unless something has drastically changed the long-term vulnerability window is a daily time of less NPC help in guarding your settlement. Not a time when it's okay to kill as many residents of the settlement as many times as possible without the standard consequences applied in any geography or clock hour.
You only have to think about those things if your settlement/company is frequently declared against in wars or feuds. If you don't want to deal with it, leaving the game is one option or you could play with a group that is infrequently in hostilities or meta-protected by the community.
Throughout all of this, both EE and OE, the settlement will have a daily window in which anyone in the settlement will be open to attack. No one will be able to tear your walls down without a lot of prep, but they will be able to launch PvP attacks against your members every day of the year.Unless something has drastically changed the long-term vulnerability window is a daily time of less NPC help in guarding your settlement. Not a time when it's okay to kill as many residents of the settlement as many times as possible without the standard consequences applied in any geography or clock hour.
You only have to think about those things if your settlement/company is frequently declared against in wars or feuds. If you don't want to deal with it, leaving the game is one option or you could play with a group that is infrequently in hostilities or meta-protected by the community.
There seems to be several settlements which accept and value members not willing to PvP.If your current settlement isn't one of them, look around for options. You should also consider joining one that has a large enough group of players who enjoy PvP, so they can take care of defense while you can focus on the things you like.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Throughout all of this, both EE and OE, the settlement will have a daily window in which anyone in the settlement will be open to attack. No one will be able to tear your walls down without a lot of prep, but they will be able to launch PvP attacks against your members every day of the year.
As Proxima pointed out (and provided I have not completely fallen of the loop as well as the wagon) the planned settlement vulnerability window (often somewhat misleadingly referred to as "PvP window") was indeed supposed to be a certain time of the day during which the NPC guards of the settlement are their weakest and thus the settlement is at its most vulnerable to be conquered.
The settlement vulnerability window (as far as I know) has never been intended to make any region of the map consequence free for PvP (though I can understand how this misunderstanding could easily arise from the design of the War of the Towers).
And of course there is nothing mechanically preventing anyone from attacking any of us anywhere anytime (whether a war/feud/whatever mechanic is used or not to negate/mitigate the consequences of such attack), so we all need to be ready for PvP whenever we log in (at least in the sense that we are not frustrated when it inevitably happens to us at an inconvenient time).
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Goblin Squad Member
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While your point is a good one Caldeathe, I think this is where the very large Settlement populations come in. Ryan has made it clear that Settlements will not be viable unless they have hundreds of citizens. I think that this is, in part, because they would need that many to keep up a solid defense during their PvP window.
Not to mention Fruben's point.