| Dispari Scuro |
I'm making a catfolk ninja. That's about all I've decided on. I read a couple guides and got some solid ideas. But I'm stuck on what sort of weapon style(s) I should use.
Originally I wanted to dual-wield wakizashis, which is still an option, though that requires feats and will require very high Dex to make use of.
Then I realized, not only can I get claws which don't require feats and don't lock me into needing 17+ Dex, but catfolks can take a talent to get d8s on sneak attack when using claws. Downside there is, once I hit level 8, I start missing out on iterative attacks. At that point it might be better to switch to dual-wielding. Also, claws are just x2 crit, which matters a little.
I briefly looked at doing katana, but even two-handing it when sneak is impossible, there's not much benefit to doing that over just attacking with claws. Doing a daisho would be nice thematically, but that would create a mess with feats and ability scores.
Anyway, it looks like the best option is just using claws UNTIL I hit level 8, but then I suddenly need two feats and to have at least 17 Dex, and after that point I wasted a rogue talent. Or I could stick with claws for the d8s, but how much would I be losing out on compared to having iteratives? Or is there some easier/less obnoxious path I can choose instead?
| Dispari Scuro |
Actually you are better off with claws until 15th level. At 8th you get a single extra attack at -5, with claws you have the same number of attacks but at full BAB. Even when you get your third attack its chance to hit is so low that you are still better off with claws.
Yeah I'm trying to figure out the math on how it would work out.
With weapons I'd have, let's say, +12 at 8th level. But since I'm dual wielding that's -2 to all. So I'd have +10/+10/+5. With another feat, that's another attack at +5. With claws, they'd just be at +12/+12.
There are other factors though. If I'm invisible I get a +2 and I hit against their flat-footed AC, so the iterative attacks may have a better chance of hitting. OTOH, dual wielding would pretty much require TWF, Improved TWF, and Weapon Finesse, and my Str would end up being crap. If I did claws, I could actually go all Str, and save at least 3 feats. But... then I'd need an Amulet of Mighty Fists.
Lots of pros/cons either way.
TheSideKick
|
In play full attacking won't become a viable option until you can dimension door, if you choose to build that way. The katana will be the best option for damage assuming you don't want to stack dex. The claws can be used when placed into a position for a full attack. If you want to max your dps use smoke bomb with moonlit stalker feint to Max your sneak attack damage and to hit.
| Guardianlord |
The amulet of mighty fists can be enchanted with +'s and with weapon abilities including agile, this can make the catfolk claws that much deadlier for longer.
You do want high DEX for a ninja in general, but especially if you can get Catskin leather magic armor (no max DEX), or Murderers Blackcloth (+1 bleed damage).
Ninjas STR for damage just isn't that important, they have poor health for a front line combatant, low AC (with no class abilities to boost it), they are a MAD class (CHA for KI for bonus attacks and vanish), DEX for increased AC, Shuriken damage and light weapons to hit, and acrobatics checks out of combat, they also need CON to compensate for lower HD, and INT is a good idea for KNOWS (enemy weaknesses), Disable device, UMD, STR skills, Stealth, disguise, Perception (low WIS), etc.
WIS and STR are their two true dump stats. Damage comes from Sneaks, flanks and possibly poison.
Weapon finesse and dual enchanted Wakizashi's can help your rogue have access to a large number of variant enchantments, claws are much more limited (without multiple amulets), but claws are cheaper, you are always armed and always threatening (ninjas are never flatfooted), plus it makes disguises or sneaking into places easier (no weapons? no problem).
I might also recommend a pair of double-pistols depending on the campaign, if used for TWF sneak attack out of vanish they can be deadly (4 shots + DEX+ 4 sneak, at -6 each vs touch+flat footed = good chance to hit and lots of dmg). Then swift action vanish and use your claws/swords/Spring loaded wrist sheath + Shuriken the rest of the fight.
| Hayato Ken |
Two natural claw attacks are awesome.
Either go weapon finesse, weapon focus and slashing grace.
(Alternatively take one level of swashbuckler, or more.
Great synergy with a ninja.)
Doesn´t function with the claws itself, but there is a nice catfolk item called claw blades, which turns your claws into light slashing weapons.
You want two of that. You can also enchant them.
(Some people might say that are not the claws anymore then, but reading the description of the item, i deem that nonsense.)
Combine that with the d8 sneak attack and your damage will be heavy.
Weapon style is now very similar to a Teko-kagi, the iron claw, very ninja.
| Dispari Scuro |
The claw blades are actually interesting. A little pricy though, if I'm reading it right, and also kind of clumsy. It's 305 and already gives you a +1 enhancement on attack rolls. But to actually make it magic you have to make it masterwork, which is just an extra 300gp with no actual benefit since it already gives a +1 to attack? So now it's 605gp each? Weird.
I was thinking it might be better to do an Amulet of Mighty Fists and grab the Mother's Teeth trait, which gives me a bite attack. The bite is only 1d2 and a secondary attack, but that'd give me a third attack when full attacking. So I'd have two attacks that do 1d8 sneak and one that does 1d6 sneak. That, plus the ability to spend ki to get an extra claw attack should be pretty good sneak from invisibility and would be a good bang for buck ratio, since I could go all Dex and get an Agile Amulet for 5k ASAP.
Only downside is having crap damage outside of sneak up until then.
| BadBird |
Either go weapon finesse, weapon focus and slashing grace.(Alternatively take one level of swashbuckler, or more.
Great synergy with a ninja.)
Unfortunately Slashing Grace doesn't work with light weapons; an agile Amulet of Mighty Fists or Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes can work though if available. The Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes is perfect for a claw-user, since it covers both strikes once you get to 6bab. Haste is an issue until you hit 11bab, but if you're using Brawling armor then your attacks are at least magical. I don't think there's anything stopping a character from using Bodywraps to add enhancement and an Amulet of Mighty fists to add weapon properties either...
One bonus to using Feral Combat Training is that Piranha Strike and Brawling armor can work together, where the attack bonus and penalty cancel out and you're left with a significant pile of bonus damage for a dex-based character that needs to be careful giving up attack.
| Cevah |
I'm making a catfolk ninja. That's about all I've decided on. I read a couple guides and got some solid ideas. But I'm stuck on what sort of weapon style(s) I should use.
Originally I wanted to dual-wield wakizashis, which is still an option, though that requires feats and will require very high Dex to make use of.
Iteratives only matter on full attacks. You don't get many of them since you seem to be always moving toward a moving target. Without locking the target into position, melee does not get full attacks often. You also need to flank for your bonus damage, something the target will actively try to keep you from getting.
Then I realized, not only can I get claws which don't require feats and don't lock me into needing 17+ Dex, but catfolks can take a talent to get d8s on sneak attack when using claws. Downside there is, once I hit level 8, I start missing out on iterative attacks. At that point it might be better to switch to dual-wielding. Also, claws are just x2 crit, which matters a little.
Your prime damage is sneak attack, not static bonuses. That crit does not matter much.
I briefly looked at doing katana, but even two-handing it when sneak is impossible, there's not much benefit to doing that over just attacking with claws. Doing a daisho would be nice thematically, but that would create a mess with feats and ability scores.
Anyway, it looks like the best option is just using claws UNTIL I hit level 8, but then I suddenly need two feats and to have at least 17 Dex, and after that point I wasted a rogue talent. Or I could stick with claws for the d8s, but how much would I be losing out on compared to having iteratives? Or is there some easier/less obnoxious path I can choose instead?
What you should focus on is getting more attack opportunities. Get Combat Reflexes to allow more AoO per round. Get the Step Up chain to follow targets and stay in melee without needing to use your move action (and thus deny the full attack). The Long Arm spell gives you reach, allowing a greater area covered. So does Enlarge Person. Some Monk stuff (styles?) let you get AoOs from their attacks.
/cevah
| Secret Wizard |
You can take the Scout archetype as it has been said. Take it, and then get that wonderful Claw Pounce.
Work hard on your defenses. Go Weapon Finesse. Take Improved Evasion as an Advanced Rogue Talent. Get good CON and WIS. Get Weapon Focus Claws. Catfolk Exemplar to increase Claw damage is cute, but your real worry is attack bonus, not damage. Remember that.
Since you have high Charisma, as usual, I recommend Dazzling Display and Shatter Defenses, plus Violent Display if applicable. Don't get Piranha Strike, you can use the attack more than the damage.
As usual, I'd like to remind you of your wonderful Eldritch Heritage options too. I love Rakshaza for Ninjas, Shadow is a bit superfluous since you have Invisibility.
| Dispari Scuro |
Iteratives only matter on full attacks. You don't get many of them since you seem to be always moving toward a moving target. Without locking the target into position, melee does not get full attacks often. You also need to flank for your bonus damage, something the target will actively try to keep you from getting.
Targets should only be moving intelligently if they're intelligent, unless the GM is just a big cheater making 0-2 int animals move around every round so they don't get flanked. At any rate, as a ninja I would think that flanking necessity would be lessened due to invisibility.
Anyway, when I am limited to one attack per round, claws would be the best due to full BAB and d8 sneak. So I will probably go the claws/bite route. Is there any other way to gain natural attacks? Magic items maybe?
| Mysterious Stranger |
Some animals can and do use tactics despite only have an INT of 2. The phrase pack tactics refers to wolves. They will have one member attack and when the creature goes after the attacker it retreats and another member attack from the rear. Usually the creature being attacking then turns to deal with the wolf who just attacked it, who then retreats and the original attacker moves back to attack.
| Rogar Stonebow |
I'm making a catfolk ninja. That's about all I've decided on. I read a couple guides and got some solid ideas. But I'm stuck on what sort of weapon style(s) I should use.
Originally I wanted to dual-wield wakizashis, which is still an option, though that requires feats and will require very high Dex to make use of.
Then I realized, not only can I get claws which don't require feats and don't lock me into needing 17+ Dex, but catfolks can take a talent to get d8s on sneak attack when using claws. Downside there is, once I hit level 8, I start missing out on iterative attacks. At that point it might be better to switch to dual-wielding. Also, claws are just x2 crit, which matters a little.
I briefly looked at doing katana, but even two-handing it when sneak is impossible, there's not much benefit to doing that over just attacking with claws. Doing a daisho would be nice thematically, but that would create a mess with feats and ability scores.
Anyway, it looks like the best option is just using claws UNTIL I hit level 8, but then I suddenly need two feats and to have at least 17 Dex, and after that point I wasted a rogue talent. Or I could stick with claws for the d8s, but how much would I be losing out on compared to having iteratives? Or is there some easier/less obnoxious path I can choose instead?
With legos